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View Diary: Court to Vermont: "Drop Dead" (200 comments)

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  •  So in the face of this (19+ / 0-)

    Crumbling, poorly maintained, relic of a plant people aren't allowed to take action till it kills someone? Nice.

    48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam "Compassion is the radicalism of our time." ~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama -7.88, -6.21

    by Siri on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 07:41:59 AM PST

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    •  No, until there is definiteive proof (9+ / 0-)

      that it has killed someone.  That is the standard that nuclear power advocates want plants to be held to.  Unless you can show unequivocally that the plant in question has killed more people than a coal plant would then it should keep going forever.  Damn the increase in deaths that may be related to it.  Or the general increase in background radiation, which can't have anything to do with the increase in cancer rates we've seen since the introduction of nuclear power.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 08:29:32 AM PST

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      •  Nifty how they spin that, (5+ / 0-)

        isn't it? In order for a nuke to be definitively 'proved' to have caused a death, the person would literally have to be vaporized on the spot - in front of a dozen witnesses that must include medical researchers and judges. But the nuke apologists can go on and on about the thousands and thousands of deaths 'caused' by coal every year, even though there is no definitive cause-effect there. Just a general statistical increase they are allowed to blame on coal, while denying the very same general statistical increases due to radioactive contamination.

        I think that's called "having your cake and eating it too."

        •  Yes there is and both the NIH and the EPA (0+ / 0-)

          established the carcinogen relationship between respiratory aliments and coal dust. It's a well established fact that even coal-ADVOCATES don't dispute, which is why it's all about "clean coal" these days. There have been far more epidemiological studies around the effects of living down wind from coal plants than from nuclear plants. It's clear that coal kills and kills thousands.

          I know fossil-apologists like Joy above doesn't like to hear it but only nuclear will shutdown coal plants...which as part of generation is the biggest in terms of absolute quantity AND per unit of energy, producer of GHG emissions or has that escaped this discussion?

          Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

          by davidwalters on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 10:56:54 AM PST

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          •  Pitiful (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau, lunachickie

            Nukes are dying, they will go the way of DDT. Stopped. Only a Lyndon Larouche cultist would think otherwise.

            •  Randy, you better wake up. Get out of your (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bryfry

              little world where ever it is. The nuclear industry is actually growing. The countries that have stated  they are abandoning nuclear energy can be counted on one hand. Those that are expanding it are in the double digits. Dozens of reactors are being built right now! around the world.

              I explained is this to Wasserman some time ago, I think he 'gets it' now...you have to stop projecting what you "like" or want to see as if the world is following it. It is not.

              Nothing has slowed down really: oil, gas, hydro, solar, nuclear, wind. It's ALL being built. You better wake up because underestimating your 'enemy' will leave you in the dust...

              Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

              by davidwalters on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 01:49:44 PM PST

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              •  That's not my name (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lunachickie

                Well maybe the President/Chu's plan will fall apart due to the unreasonable cost and maybe even an awakening of good, smart people who don't want nukes and the United States will at least be a little safer than the countries who pursue it. I find your hopeful outlook discouraging and fiscally shallow. Renewables will outpace nukes and they will eventually fade into the dark shadows of terminally bad ideas.

                •  Well that *their* plan may fall apart (0+ / 0-)

                  is likely on the face of it, just as their plan for more unreliables will fall apart (Solandra, "clean coal", etc etc). Has nothing to do with the tech but the politics.

                  Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

                  by davidwalters on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 07:24:38 AM PST

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            •  Global Nuclear Generation Capacity Falls (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              randallt

              http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/...

              http://www.mnn.com/...

              Post-Fukushima nuclear power generation could decrease 15 percent
              IEA's lowered nuclear power forecast reflects the 'pessimistic view' that the energy source has developed in the wake of Japan's nuclear woes.

              http://www.environmental-expert.com/...
              New Investments In The Nuclear Energy Industry Decreased In Q3 2011

              Of course, the trend can change any time, but right now it is pointing down. No two ways about it.
              ;-)

              „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

              by translatorpro on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 02:29:09 PM PST

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              •  You don't get it. I never said it was (0+ / 0-)

                increasing relative to other forms of power. Apples and oranges. I'm saying it's expanding from it's 435 nuclear reactors to another 100 over the next 10 years or so.

                What's expanding relative to other forms of energy is gas and coal.

                My point is that more and more reactors will be coming on line in the next few years, not less and less which is implicit in the statement that nuclear "is dying". FAIL.

                Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

                by davidwalters on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 02:55:15 PM PST

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                •  What some of you don't get (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Russgirl, randallt, translatorpro

                  is the fact that shoddy workmanship takes all forms, including--clearly, demonstrably--in the nuclear power industry.

                  You can try spinning this nine ways from Sunday, and it'll be just as laughable on the tenth time, too. Until the human beings that build these things are infallible, your defense of it is the only glaring FAIL that I see.

                  It is time to #Occupy Media.

                  by lunachickie on Tue Jan 24, 2012 at 06:40:05 PM PST

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                  •  Really? You mean the thousands killed (0+ / 0-)

                    every day or...decade from nuclear? Or those plants all melting down? In fact, "shoddy workmanship" isn't even what lead to the Fukushima meltdown. I know...just say 'anything' but that nuclear provides most of the worlds non-carbon/GHG emissions and can be used to shut down gas and coal plants. it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to work, and it does, safely. If all you have is a collapsed cooling tower and you want to sacrafice the planet for fear there may be TWO collapsed cooling towers, then you don't really care.

                    Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

                    by davidwalters on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 07:27:11 AM PST

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                    •  How much longer (0+ / 0-)

                      do you intend to sidestep the point being made here about "workmanship".

                      Because you can put out all the nuke-industry talking points you want--none of it addresses that point. None of it.

                      It is time to #Occupy Media.

                      by lunachickie on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 04:12:34 PM PST

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