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View Diary: PIPA/SOPA Round Two: The Anti-Counterfeit Trade Agreement (ACTA) (Updated!) (46 comments)

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  •  The People Demand Free Stuff! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jaimas, nerve

    The continuing drumbeat on this site against steps to protect intellectual property seems way overblown.  ACTA is a clear and present danger?  If they can't even get SOPA/PIPA through, how are they going to get Senate ratification of this?  This diary reads like a fundraising "scare letter" for the civil liberties NGOs.

    Let's be real about IP theft.  What's really going on is an unspoken deal between the crooks and consumers:  

    - the crooks keep letting people download other people's creative work for free

    and in exchange

    - consumers scream about violations of their rights to keep enforcement off the backs of the crooks so they can reap their profit and keep the machinery going...

    Everyone wins - except the creators of IP being stolen.  That's why you don't see their point of view represented on this site.  And anyone who defends enforcement gets howled down.

    "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

    by FDRDemocrat on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 12:47:20 PM PST

    •  You know that would almost be a valid argument.... (5+ / 0-)

      ...If they didn't have a history making these kind of claims against literally anything that could cut into their profits. You know - like the VHS. Or DVDs. Or MP3 Players. You know, shit which falls under fair use.

      •  Even If At Times They Cry Wolf The Theft Is Real (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, I agree with you there is a long and sordid history of greed by some of these companies.  I remember having to buy a vinyl album with eleven rotten songs just to get one good one.  They gouged and they gouged...

        BUT...

        The theft today is real and its not just affecting the big companies.  It is across the board.  Check into it some more.  You have book authors who see their book appear a month after release translated into Chinese and selling in China under the name of a guy no one ever heard of.

        People need to get out of their comfort zones on this.  The costs of crime, and especially IP crime, are passed in through higher prices for legitimate products.  Hence, people who buy legit are in essence subsidizing the people who go online to download illicitly for free.

        "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

        by FDRDemocrat on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 03:03:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, let's believe industry stats! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brown Thrasher, kurt

          Even though they're as trustworthy as Mitt Romney's ass.

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          by The Dead Man on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 03:57:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  No it isn't. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brown Thrasher, kurt

          Copying is not "theft", even when it is copying something that has been made illegal to copy. Lots of things are made illegal, but only some of those things are "theft". Copyright infringement isn't one of them. If you want to be "real" then stop using false rhetoric to push your position.

          http://www.youtube.com/...

        •  Then these corporate futhermuckers need (0+ / 0-)

          to get hip to the 'net. We're stealing becuz we already bought their crap in four different formats. We're NOT buying it again. They're just pissed becuz the tables have turned. They're not stealing us blind. We're stealing them blind.
          Dammit, how much of that $1.29 I pay for an iTunes mp3 goes to pay off the IP owners? Not the artist, just the owners of that IP? Exactly. That should "cover" any "sharing" I wish to do. But, nope. It ain't nearly enough for these IP yahoos.
          There are too many ways to "share" files across the 'Net these days. They won't be able to stop that. Well, the ONLY way they'll be able to stop that is to shut down the Internet. Which is exactly what these bills attempt to do.

        •  So why not go AFTER Chinese bootleggers (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          madgranny, kurt

          ...rather than buggering up the legitimate Internet?

          Oh yeah, that's right — because buggering up the Internet is the whole point. (After all, when you're trying to artificially prop up a dying global monopoly, you can't have a bunch of democracy start creeping in all over the place...)

          Tell Congress: DON'T BREAK THE INTERNET! Learn about the OPEN Act.

          by Brown Thrasher on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 04:21:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I doubt the commenting here are the creative... (0+ / 0-)

            The vast majority of people who are on the creative side would disagree with you all.  That is because they are the ones getting the shaft in terms of losing the fruits of their labors.

            If you are benefiting from ripping off others, then of course you invent all sorts of rationales to justify yourselves.  

            OF COURSE there is legitimate copying.  OF COURSE there are illegal monopolies.  OF COURSE we have to take industry statistics - like any statistics - with a grain of salt.

            That does not mean theft is not happening.  Theft on an epic scale.  Real theft.  And just because the industry is not spotless in its behavior does not give you the right to walk in the door and clean out the shelves.

            If you are taking advantage of ripping people off, then naturally you don't want to admit this and invent a bunch of straw men.

            "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

            by FDRDemocrat on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 04:06:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bull. (0+ / 0-)

              Your talking points simply repeat the same bogus nonsense which your fellow content-mafia middlemen have repeated for decades with ZERO evidence.

              Indeed, as an actual member of the "creative side", I know just how much you're full of it. The Internet is essentially the only really useful venue left for the independent artist to actually expose & get paid directly for his work without "getting the shaft" from record label contracts that cede creative control in return for pennies on the dollar. (Funny how the "fruits" of the bean-counters' "labors" always end up counted as so much more important...)

              "Epic" theft? Seriously, point me to all these massive stick-ups of Borders & Best Buys that are supposed to be going on. It's not happening. Show me all these heists of master tapes that prove that certain songs can never be issued again. Guess what: Recording tech is simply not that limited in this day & age, like it or not. (The big players have certainly been stealing very real monetary assets from artists they employ by "creative accounting", though, as well as ripping off indy artists' content wholesale from YouTube& accusing the artists of stealing it. I won't hold my breath waiting to hear you complain about that, though...)

              The content fascists' war on independent creators & new media just shows their real agenda: To make sure that only CEOs with Mitt Romney's legal budget will be allowed to reap the benefits of anything-like-creative work — & that the only "creativity" allowed will be "safe", identical, mass-produced prolefeed.

              On behalf of fellow creative types here, I say to hell with that.

              Tell Congress: DON'T BREAK THE INTERNET! Learn about the OPEN Act.

              by Brown Thrasher on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:21:32 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  I'm with you as far as IP goes. (5+ / 0-)

      Intellectual property should be protected because people should be paid for their efforts. However, the overreaction to SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA is justified because they are overreactions themselves. However, there are different ways of protecting IP. OPEN has also been proposed in the House and in the Senate, but it doesn't get the press like SOPA and PIPA. OPEN defers to the International Trade Commission, which deals with counterfeit goods anyway. Also, OPEN would actually be more effective against digital piracy groups by cutting off their funding instead of censoring the internet.

      So say we all! Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined version)

      by nerve on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 01:22:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  SOPA/PIPA Less of a Threat Than Twitter.... (0+ / 0-)

        Twitter is moving to censor in order to operate in authoritarian countries.  I expected to log onto DKOS today to see some hard-hitting diaries on Twitter.  I find....zilch.

        Instead the same old SOPA/PIPA stuff, now with new villain ACTA.  None of this stuff is becoming law anytime soon, while what Twitter is doing (and some others) is happening now.

        I hope I wasn't the only one who found it ironic that Google and Twitter led the "Internet Freedom" charge against SOPA/PIPA, while they arrive at the same or worse results due to their business practices.  They have genius PR is all I can say.

        It reminds me of how Glenn Beck got all his listeners to send money to the US Chamber of Commerce so they can defend our freedoms.  Google and Twitter have everyone on DKOS doing the same dance.

        "Hidden in the idea of radical openness is an allegiance to machines instead of people." - Jaron Lanier

        by FDRDemocrat on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 03:07:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not that I want to defend Twitter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brown Thrasher

          but they did make their takedowns available to the public, via chillingeffects.org: http://chillingeffects.org/...

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          by The Dead Man on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 03:52:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Diary it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurt

          If you think you see a story going untold, go ahead & write a diary about it with as many relevant links as you figure the subject needs. For that matter, check under the "Google" or "Twitter" tags & see what has been said here.

          No need to dump on other relevant topics.

          (...& yes, it definitely IS relevant, since the floor vote on the just-as-horrid, privacy-destroying PCIPA is still approaching fast, with no sign of slowing down — & all the wimps in Congress are afraid to say no because it has "children" in its Rovian title.)

          Tell Congress: DON'T BREAK THE INTERNET! Learn about the OPEN Act.

          by Brown Thrasher on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 04:01:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  BS, it ultmately has nothing to do with piracy (4+ / 0-)
      The MPAA's O'Leary concedes that the industry was out-manned and outgunned in cyberspace. He says the MPAA "is [undergoing] a process of education, a process of getting a much, much greater presence in the online environment. This was a fight on a platform we're not at this point comfortable with, and we were going up against an opponent that controls that platform."

      The MPAA and RIAA don't have a clue about the internet, and they spent millions trying to kill it instead of adapting to it.

      There are plenty of people with new business models that work using the internet.

      P.S. The MPAA and RIAA aren't content creators... they're the suits and beancounters who insure the creatives get as little of the pie as possible.  The internet allows creatives to circumvent their schemes -- something they can't stand.

      NOW SHOWING
      Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
      Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

      by The Dead Man on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 03:51:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  ACTA is a clear and present danger (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brown Thrasher, kurt

      Obama has already signed it. There's debate about whether that makes it binding. I think clearly it does not, but the administration says it does. Stuff in the past like warrantless wiretaps and indefinite detention seem to run afoul of the constitution also, but the President said it was ok, and apparently it was. Nobody could do anything to stop them. So it's far from clear that anyone needs the Senate to ratify this before they start attacking people with it.

      There is also no "unspoken deal". What there is are most people in the world who value preserving the open internet more than expanding copyright laws to ever more draconian proportions to further enrich a few. All these new laws are a zero-sum game and people realize it. They aim to destroy the former to serve the latter.

    •  The point of view of the creators . . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt

      is in accordance with the point of view of the diarist, generally speaking.  It's the big legacy distributors whose business model is being threatened who're pushing this kind of legislation.  

      If you take a quick look around the net, you'll see that writers and artists and musicians came out against SOPA/PIPA.  As did tech professionals working in the television industry.  We on the creative side are ready and willing to adapt to new modes of distribution.  It's the rent-seeking IP owners -- some of whom have now had their copyrights extended to an unconscionable term -- who're pushing this.  

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