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View Diary: Outrage fatigue: Or, accepting that the Republicans just are that bad (160 comments)

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  •  i mean, if you think Obama is evil (5+ / 0-)
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    StellaRay, MrJersey, kingfishstew, Sue B, Terri

    cause if Obama crosses the threshold for what is evil then we are all in a whole lot of trouble

    i think my cat is possessed by dick cheney

    by Anton Bursch on Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 06:28:47 PM PST

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    •  Agree, Anton. (9+ / 0-)

      It is hyperbole of the worst order to call Obama evil.  In fact, many here won't agree with me, but I don't even think GWB is or was evil.  Incompetent, not smart, wrong, hapless, in over his head, and responsible for a national nightmare--- OH YEAH.  But not evil.  Reminds me of that old saying about "the banality of evil."  Meaning evil can come from those who did not intend it, but simply couldn't or wouldn't live up to the moment.

      Cheney on the other hand...

      •  Torture is not only illegal; it's evil. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GeeBee, Timaeus, roadbear, Amber6541, nellgwen

        GWB bragged about waterboarding detainees.

        Targeted assassinations of people not charged much less convicted of any crime is evil.  

        •  Can't disagree. (1+ / 0-)
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          But you're going to have to live in the same world I've lived in, Marie. You're not entitled to more, despite your self righteousness. You're going to have to pick and stumble you're way through.  You're going to have to choose your battles, and go for the best thing going. You're going to have to make less than perfect decisions based on less than perfect circumstances.

          BTW, are you a parent?  If you are, you'll surely come to understand what I'm saying, on a less than global front.  If you're not, well then, you'll find out what I'm saying is true, in different ways.

          I really eschew the simplicity that says it's white or black.  I have lived too long not to know that most of life occurs in shades of gray.

          •  But just want to make one thing clear, (0+ / 0-)

            I too think torture is evil.  Completely and without caveat.  And, I must note, that Obama called a halt to the tortuous ways of the Bush administration. We have not heard of that going on since Obama laid his hand on the Bible and became our president.

            My previous post was more about learning to bob and weave with realities, stay absolute about certain things, but know that none of us are entitled to a perfect outcome.

            My God, just look at history, and all of those who have suffered so much before us, in ways we can't even imagine. We are not getting out of this world without complaint. To me, more important that we give light and support to the best choices we can.

          •  Sorry -- forgot for a moment there (0+ / 0-)

            that laws, ethics, and morality are situationally applicable -- When Japanese soldiers waterboarded captives, it was torture and their commanding officers were culpable.  When the US does it, it falls into the abyss of the world not being black and white.  

            Your comment exemplifies everything wrong with how the recent US liberal class thinks.  

            •  Wow. My little old comment (0+ / 0-)

              "exemplifies everything wrong with how the the US liberal class thinks?"  That's quite a feat, but I don't think I can take credit as I made quite clear that I thought torture was evil, without any caveats.  Pretty black and white statement, I believe.  

              Your comment exemplifies everything wrong with not reading carefully.

        •  i disagree in practice (0+ / 0-)

          killing people who have been trying to blow up planes is not evil.  unless you think killing people who are trying to kill you is evil.  

          i think my cat is possessed by dick cheney

          by Anton Bursch on Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 11:06:36 PM PST

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          •  ayyo, we got this thing called due process (1+ / 0-)
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            maybe you don't think it matters, but it was one of the reasons for founding this country.

            People were tired of a society where the head of state could accuse someone of something and then carry out a sentence after assuming their guilt.

            So we decided that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and set up a legal system to work on proving (or not) guilt.

            Except now to be in favor of due process, one of the founding priciples of our republic, is to be some kind of civil liberties extremist. Everyone running for president thinks due process is unneccessary because once the president decides someone is guilty of "terrorism", assassinating them is A-OK.

            Well, I think that is bullshit, regardless of whether the "terrorist" is accused of "trying to blow up planes" or being an Iranian nuclear scientist or whatever other "crime" you want to mention: if you haven't given them a trial, and you kill them, it's murder. If you imprison them, it's kidnapping.

            This is why I can't muster up much enthusiasm for 2012: each candidate is a would-be criminal.

            "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

            by joey c on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 12:45:56 PM PST

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            •  we also have this thing called self defense (0+ / 0-)

              and when someone is actively trying to commit mass murder we get to defend ourselves from them

              there is such a thing in life called having balance and priorities

              and we all fucking know that the dude was a terrorist.  it wasn't 'the president' who decided that.  and it's totally a LIE to characterize this situation as if that is what happened.

              i think my cat is possessed by dick cheney

              by Anton Bursch on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 04:42:35 PM PST

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              •  your statement is false and malicious (0+ / 0-)

                if you're referring to Awlaki, you have no idea if he was a terrorist or not.

                It was in fact the president who decided that he was a terrorist, without any due process, as Leon Panetta details.

                It is certain that Awlaki engaged in constitutionally protected speech and advocacy wherein he advocated violence against the US in reprisal for violence perpetrated by the US.

                Whether he had any role in any actual terrorist actions, like bombings or killings, has never been substantiated in public.

                I don't buy into "trust us, the evidence is secret but it exists and proves his guilt." Never have, never will.

                So for you to characterize my statement as a lie is bullshit and suggests that you are not someone with whom it is worth engaging in discussion because (amongst other reasons) when someone in authority asserts something you apparently go "yeah, sure, of course" instead of critically evaluating the matter.

                "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

                by joey c on Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 12:46:40 PM PST

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    •  You want to see evil, just look at the Republican (0+ / 0-)

      Party since Eisenhower.

      And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

      by MrJersey on Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 07:50:56 PM PST

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