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View Diary: Coal Mega Ports planned for Northwest could surpass CO2 impact from Keystone XL (91 comments)

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  •  Hang on (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erush1345

    Nonviolent civil disobedience is poles apart from the suggested "direct action against the construction sites".  They are two utterly, absolutely, in fact opposite things.

    We shall not participate in our own destruction.

    by James Wells on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:24:14 AM PST

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    •  No, they aren't (7+ / 0-)

      Sorry for the confusion.  I didn't mean to go tear everything up, I meant to physically impose ourselves so that they can't build the terminals.  Then if they do build them we stop the trains.  And if the trains get through we stop the boats.  Non-violent civil disobedience is a form of direct action.

      I'd add that I'm not necessarily opposed to some property destruction in this case, I just don't know how useful it would be.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:28:51 AM PST

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      •  Maybe I'm oversensitive (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RonK

        I read the phrase I quoted as being something that someone could reasonably interpret as advocating violence (I get that it's a question of definition whether property damage is expressly violence).  

        Even if it's not exactly what was meant, I also think it's critical not to ever post anything that could be interpreted that way, can easily be used to discredit legitimate and legal advocacy.

        We shall not participate in our own destruction.

        by James Wells on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:33:48 AM PST

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        •  Sorry, but it's silly to argue that (0+ / 0-)

          we should abandon the language because you don't know the common meaning of the words in it.

          Direct action is activity undertaken by individuals, groups, or governments to achieve political, economic, or social goals outside of less direct social/political channels.

          Fear is your only God.

          by JesseCW on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:41:56 AM PST

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        •  violence will be done, when that coal is burnt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          esquimaux

          it will just be an indirect form of violence, several orders of magnitude more cruel than anything any radical might come up with.

          •  A Rationalization (0+ / 0-)

            Republicans take care of big money, for big money takes care of them ~ Will Rogers

            by Lefty Coaster on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 03:52:25 PM PST

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            •  nope, just a statement of fact (0+ / 0-)

              whether we do nothing, use nonviolent direct action, write sternly-worded letters, or use violent action (which i am not advocating here), violence is being done and will continue to be done through the burning of this coal that will dwarf any efforts to stop it, no matter the tactic.

              that isn't a rationalization, that is the way it is. the fact that we all obscure the violence of the act of burning coal is a major factor in why it is so hard to even slow the rate of increase of carbon emissions.

              they are not figuratively killing people with that coal, they are literally killing people. the sooner we understand that, the better IMO.

      •  Property destruction tends to be sensationalized (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, esquimaux

        in a country that regards private property as being sacrosanct.

        Republicans take care of big money, for big money takes care of them ~ Will Rogers

        by Lefty Coaster on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:43:38 AM PST

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    •  How can you possibly thing "Direct Action" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, wu ming, esquimaux

      is seperate from nonviolent civil disobedience?

      Dude, the word is Pacifist, not passivist.

      Fear is your only God.

      by JesseCW on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:39:39 AM PST

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      •  Unfortunately that distinction seems to be lost (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, esquimaux

        all to often.  To the advantage of the folks in charge.  You'd think it was planned or something ;)

        There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

        by AoT on Sat Jan 28, 2012 at 11:50:54 AM PST

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