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View Diary: Occupy Calls for a Global General Strike on May 1, International Workers' Day. (212 comments)

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  •  I'm in America! (2+ / 0-)
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    valion, AaronInSanDiego

    And there are jobs for the people with applicable educations. America's problem is structural unemployment. People aren't trained for the jobs that are out there.

    Manual, unskilled, and semi-skilled jobs (manufacturing, cashier, waiters, administrative assistants, etc.) are declining in value for two basic reasons. First, automation is reducing the demand for those jobs. Second, globalization and global competition from cultures that have a lower standard of living are bidding down the price of that labor. We can complain all we want here, but the simple unreversable fact is that both of these trends are going to continue. Most people here would probably fight with me on this point, but it is the way it is.

    Now, if we want to continue having a standard of living higher than the rest of the world, we have to provide products and/or services that are the envy of the world. And that means we need to be the smart people. We can build sustainable competitive advantage in the world, and that route is high levels of applicable education.

    To address some of your comments, that pathway is not gone in America. I know because it is my pathway. Jobs exist for well educated people. The debt, as I mentioned above, is easily repayable with the increased salary. I mean, if you get a degree in art history, or english, or a number of other things for which there is little market demand, yeah, you're going to get a low paying job and have issues with debt repayment. Remember, the economy is all about trading for the things you want. If nobody wants your services, you don't get much in return. It's not about who your daddy was, except in the case that if you daddy was rich, he can cover you if you pursue a career that doesn't generate much income. But even then, the kids just spend down the family fortune buying goods and services from people who presently have the in-demand jobs.

    As for business school and health insurance, you can get health insurance through most business schools. Also, most peopel coming out of business school don't start their own business - they work for massive businesses and get excellent medical benefits.

    •  I take it you have never been hungry, or homeless, (5+ / 0-)

      or lived in a situation that makes your statements seem cruel and laughable.  I have.  If everyone could do what you are suggesting, and everyone who is starving and hurting had such an opportunity, that would be great.  But that isn't reality.  Not everyone can get a loan to go to a great school.  Not every graduate would get a job.  Just how many "business" upper-class jobs do you think there are?  Millions of people are hurting, not just a few.  There aren't millions of such jobs.  When McDonald's hired some 50,000 people (or whatever that number was) - there were 100 applicants for each spot - at McDonald's.  Even if you could provide the education necessary to bring every hurting American up to speed in the 'correct' college courses, there wouldn't be enough jobs.  It isn't the answer to the overall problem.

      A good start would be a giant infrastructure rebuild of America.  That takes deficit spending.  Spitting at the pump doesn't prime it.  Taxes returned to 'normal' levels on the rich, and on Corporations, and a total elimination of tax credits for the rich and Corporations - all by itself would do a lot to solve America's problem.  We are still the richest country in the world, but the majority of us don't have the money.  Just a few, very, very wealthy people do.

      Your comments smack of privilege and ignorance of the reality that so many people are living in.  Getting a loan to go to school is pretty useless when you can't even feed yourself or your family - or health "insurance" bills have bankrupted you.

      #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

      by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:20:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm questioned on a personal level more than I (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, sviscusi

        like on this site. I'm serious. If you want to do point, counter-point, I'll talk to you. But what sucks is responding to shit like this:

        I take it you have never been hungry, or homeless...
        Your comments smack of privilege and ignorance of the reality that so many people are living in.

        First off, I haven't been homeless, but I have been hungry.

        Second, I'm aware of the reality people are living in. That doesn't change the economic dynamics of it. If you want a higher paying job than someone in China, you'd better be able to do something they can't.

        •  Wow. You do understand that a lot of American (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ladyjames, JayRaye

          jobs were sent to China for that very reason - because they don't have regulations against little kids working in sweatshops, no protections, suicides common - and will work for pennies.  American Corporations actually have tax incentives to send our jobs there.  They paid lobbyists to encourage the passing of such bills and laws.  Most 'lower class' Americans don't have a chance.  Most Americans do not have the personal infrastructure in place to do what you are suggesting.  Pardon me for being frank, but it really sounds like you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

          Any job in America is a higher paying job than one in China.  Republicans would have us all working just like they do.  Republicans say exactly the same fucking thing you just said.  First you tell people to go get a loan to go to 'business school' - and can't, apparently,  comprehend why that isn't a realistic solution.  Then you say that we just have to live with the crappy situation forced on us by the ultra-wealthy, by doing something the Chinese cannot.  What is it that any American can do that any Chinese cannot?  So we should all be like the Chinese???  You make wild leaps of logic.

          If you want a higher paying job than someone in China, you'd better be able to do something they can't.

          Personally, I am able to do that.  But, I am a rarity.  And, I never got a college education.  My parent's poor credit (for being poor), and no inheritance of any kind - I had to fight for my life, and I did, and came out on top of a lot of others - but that was a bloody, denigrating fight.  12 of my best friends are dead, just for being in the wrong hood.  I almost ended up dead many times, just by being poor and in a bad neighborhood. I am lucky.  Most are not.  If only very smart, connected people are able to get that business school education, what about the dumb Americans?  What about those who can't cut it in business school.  Should they just starve???  Our manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas to add more to line the pockets of the rich.  Cheap slave labor is what you get in China dude.  Exactly what the 1% would have us be.

          Americans are wonderfully creative and have great ingenuity, but there are so many things that are now piled on them, there isn't a ladder up for most any more.  Comprehension of what it's like to live under crushing debt is far different than what it was like 20 or 30 years ago.  That's why we are in the streets.  When you just suggest getting a loan, going to school, being a business person - and somehow getting a job that will double your income, you seem like you must be very isolated and don't really have a grasp of the real world, and what people are really going through.  Most Americans do not have access to that pathway.  This is why I find your comments kind of ignorant.

          Take it personally if you want to.  Your comments invite criticism.

          #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

          by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 05:04:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  what bbrown writes is true to an extent only (2+ / 0-)
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      Evolutionary, jpmassar

      it is true that if you have ability to do higher math, and/or design weapons systems, you will do well enough even after paying back the costs of your degree(s)

      but having that education gets you a job with the bad guys, the corps that are eating the american dream, or, like many young people graduating from law school, working 80 plus hours a week, and all of them needing the coke to keep going...

      •  I'm one of those people. I could have gone to (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        great heights, if I was rich enough to go to college. Assuming that everyone can just get a loan, go to school, get good grades, and get a high paying job - used to be the American Dream.  It was just a dream.  Reality is far different.  bbrown seems to think everyone can do that.  I could list a hundred reasons why that isn't a viable solution to America's ills.  I got where I got because I'm a scrapper and very, very forward.  I got pitted against others, and survived.  A college education used to be free to the student.  Now it's unattainable for most - and was unattainable for me too (you have to have credit to get loans, and great credit to get loans big enough for a good school).  So many kids out there are graduating into a mountain of debt they will eventually be forced to default on.  There are no jobs.

        I've heard the Republican talking point about there not being enough skilled people to take the available jobs out there.  It's a bullshit argument.  Getting the education on a loan is like playing Russian Roulette.  Most do not get that high paying job now.  I know several PHD's working retail jobs.  They apply for those high paying jobs over and over, to no avail.

        #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

        by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 05:23:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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