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View Diary: Video of NYPD Breaking into Ramarley Graham's Home Prior to Murdering Him (195 comments)

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  •  It will be interesting to see (12+ / 0-)

    if the guns rights groups make any show of support here.  Because that was the only "crime" being committed here if there was any crime at all.  For certain, nothing presented so far seems to justify the actions of the police.

    •  If it weren't for the fact that most contemporary (16+ / 0-)

      gun rights groups are racist then you might see that happen. Unfortunately they don't really care when a black man gets accused of having a gun and gets shot. I certainly haven't seen them speak up about the issue.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Mon Feb 06, 2012 at 10:39:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup. (12+ / 0-)

        If you want to convert a 2nd Amendment guy, ask him if African-American people get the same rights.

        The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

        "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

        by Punditus Maximus on Mon Feb 06, 2012 at 11:12:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Bull (4+ / 0-)

          Everyone is covered in the Second Amendment.

          -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

          by Unit Zero on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 06:10:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  In the case of libertarians, (0+ / 0-)

            you simply mention women.

            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

            by Punditus Maximus on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 05:13:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (0+ / 0-)

              You are making even less sense than usual.

              Are you trying to imply that I am a Libertarian and/or I have issues with Womens Rights?

              -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

              by Unit Zero on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 07:49:32 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  If there was a firearm involved, there would be (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DruidQueen, macdust, happymisanthropy

        an argument here, or at least, a discussion. I guarantee, no matter what the race or skin color involved in this situation, if the victim had a concealed firearm permit and this happened, the "gun rights" groups would come out of the woodwork. As well they should.
        I don't know what prompted the cops to pursue the victim, someone here posted about a pistol- I don't know- have to see what the facts of the circumstances are. But this,

        gun rights groups are racist
        and assuming firearm rights=Teabagger, isn't true.
        It follows that most Teabaggers are long and loud about firearms rights because it suits their agenda; they seem more serious with a pistol. And they are openly racist, at least when it's safely wrapped in criticism for the President, but it's faulty logic to assume firearm rights equals racism.

        Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

        by Thousandwatts on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 06:28:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Go re-read what I wrote. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Thousandwatts

          I did not say that guns rights groups are racist, I said that most contemporary ones are. I'm pro-gun rights, and I'm certainly not calling myself racist.

          There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

          by AoT on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 07:48:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Now I see the distinction you're making (0+ / 0-)
            I said that most contemporary ones are
            And contemporary means: "belonging to the same age; living or occurring in the same period of time"
            So you were referring to the "guns rights" groups from back in history before we lived;they were not racist, the ones in existence today are racist.
            Okay, thanks for the clarification, now I get it.

            Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

            by Thousandwatts on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 09:46:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The distinction is between "Gun Rights groups" (0+ / 0-)

              and "Most gun rights groups." Are you really going to argue that there isn't a heavy conservative bias in most gun rights groups?

              There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

              by AoT on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 02:00:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, most gun right groups are conservative. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT

                That was never in question.
                I took issue with gun rights and racist asserted as being necessarily connected.
                I thought you explained the distinction as being "contemporary"; now you've explained the distinction wasn't "contemporary", it was "most".
                Never mind, I get it.

                Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

                by Thousandwatts on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 03:59:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'll admit it might have been a bit broad (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Thousandwatts

                  even with just most. I certainly don't think most gun owners are racist, at least not more so than the rest of the US.

                  There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                  by AoT on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 07:03:08 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Breaking in to save their lives? (5+ / 0-)

          Professional police fire the first round only to save a life in imminent peril.

          No one can watch those thugs break in and believe they thought a lethal threat hid inside.

          Gun-tagging the perp was a license to kill and they weren't going to let hunting season expire without a kill.

          This falls below the radar of guns-rights groups because gun-tagging seems to play the role rape-tagging played in the olden days of lynching.

          The people with the guns were the police. The deadly threat came from the police only.

          Among the nostalgic rifle-freaks of my acquaintance, the only problem with this scene is that only the police get to carry it out.

    •  Yep (11+ / 0-)

      What if he'd had a gun...and a concealed carry permit? Do the cops just get to assume that anyone who they think has a gun is a criminal?

      "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

      by kyril on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 01:55:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a definite possibility (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril, CuriousBoston

        that Graham' family/counsel should bring up in court. This is one of the reasons that I would think the pro-gun types would be going ballistic, pun intended.

      •  consider the context here (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MrJersey, happymisanthropy

        New York City.

        Getting a concealed carry license there is theoretically possible but in practice it is exceedingly rare. Similarly, New York has no reciprocity for CCW permits from other states. Regardless of any other aspect of this story, I think police can safely assume that a random guy walking around in the Bronx with a gun does not have a CCW permit and therefore no legal basis to be carrying one.

        Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

        by Joe Bob on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 09:53:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  But the police shouldn't assume (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          burlydee, NYFM, happymisanthropy, kyril

          that every black guy hiking up his pants by the belt is carrying a weapon.

          "...just ordinary people, you know, people who are not famous, if they get together, if they persist, if they defy the authorities, they can defeat the largest corporation in the world. - Howard Zinn

          by Sean X on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 11:18:39 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I would rather the cops not make assumptions... (5+ / 0-)

          that is how unarmed 18 year olds get killed. They obviously can't safely assume anything. The truth is that most of their "assumptions" were based on the kid's race and age. Your "assumptions" are just another persons racism.

        •  Concealed carry in NYC just about non-existent (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NYFM, happymisanthropy, kyril, Joe Bob

          unless you are a cop, a security guard (ex-cop), a diamond merchant, a high profile celebrity, or another very special circumstance. If you are a minority teen ager living in the Bronx, the chance that you are carrying legally is virtually zero. That's why in the documented cases of cop on cop shootings in NYC, the majority of off duty black cops were shot by white cops on duty. While their motivations are not known, one can surmise that the white cops assumed that the most likely explanation for an armed black man in the neighborhood was that he was a bad guy.

          And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

          by MrJersey on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 11:24:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  He didn't have a gun (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lostinamerica, kyril

          The police can assume anyone has a weapon concealed under this logic, and kill them as they are a potentail threat to them. They assume AA people are an immeniant treat. This is not reall an assumption but an excuse to kill.

          Here in Portland OR a few years ago the police killed a black woman unarmed in a traffic stop. The claimed the threat to thier lives was that she might have run over them with her car. The police did nothing to this killer but suspend him until he was cleared.

          When I lived in LA the cops shot and killed a naked man on dugs because he was making martail arts gestures with his hands at them. No concealed weapon threat there. They also shot 8 times am elderly black woman named Eulia Love over a despute with the gas company over a 69$ gas bill. Officers claimed she threw a knife at them which was widely disputed.

          Police Departments across the country are out of control. They are armed and an immentant threat to citizens, especailly non white people. There is no way for citizens to hold them accountable. They seem to function outside the bounds of oversight.

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