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View Diary: Perspectives On Hedge's "Cancer in Occupy" (99 comments)

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  •  Great diary! (6+ / 0-)

    I posted something similar recently on facebook, which was what I WISHED he had said, instead of his demonization of committed occupiers for using a black bloc TACTIC, which in turn is merely helping the mainstream media to discredit Occupy as a whole:

    The decision on whether property destruction will occur is one that should be decided through consensus. I do not denounce violent/destructive demonstration per se, but when participants in an action are there with the understanding that it will be a nonviolent/nondestructive one and some people decide to change that dynamic, it violates the precepts of anarchy and horizontalism, as those who decide to breach an agreement to nonviolence within the context of an action have usurped power over the wills of the other actors.

    There may be a role for violence/destruction. However I believe the issue is one of timing. In my opinion, the primary goal of OWS must be to increase participation so that a SOLID majority of people in the country know somebody who is active in Occupy. I also believe that violence and destruction undertaken before that point is VERY LIKELY to be an impediment to that goal. Once REAL popular support has been achieved(and I don't mean bullshit like the percentages of people who declare diaphonous sympathy to the movement on some craptastic Rachel Maddow poll but REAL PARTICIPATION/SUPPORT/DISCUSSION), then I believe tactics can change to include a stronger, more confrontational approach.

    The bourgeoisie had better watch out for me, all throughout this so called nation. We don't want your filthy money, we don't need your innocent bloodshed, we just want to end your world. ~H.R.

    by chipmo on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 08:07:21 AM PST

    •  you should friend me (0+ / 0-)

      I have a nice group there you may want to join. Same name there.

    •  While I might agree, theoretically... (0+ / 0-)

      I think you err in anticipating some big consensus to go "violent", among the masses, or any large portion of the Occupy movement, to the extent that it actually represents the masses, and their progressive, liberal, labor, civil, environmental, etc. mass constituencies and organizations.

      What they are going to want, and demand, and act on, is a call to crush the Republicans (and Blue Dog ilk) in November, to purge and suppress their jive ass, democratically, electorally, legislatively, and judicially.

      Only tiny slivers of the movement for justice and peace, to save the planet is comprised of the kind of various purported "revolutionary" left, anarchist, or whatever formations that have Always agitated for electoral boycott and splitting, and insurrection, and are mostly held in contempt and suspicion, as a bunch of likely agents provocateur and their dupes...precisely because they tend to defy consensus.

      A far more substantial consensus, for actual real violence, is far more likely to occur among the Right wing reactionary conservative and fundamentalist wing-nut formations, which have the support of no more than about 20% of the population materially on their side, more or less...and far fewer actual participants, beyond running their mouth and voting.

      As compared to 70-80% of "Americans" who are now staunchly opposed to racism, sexism, eco-rape, murderous monopoly corporate fascist rip offs and imperialist warmongering...and aspire to democracy.

      Which is why the Right is anti-democratic, and thus, anti-Democratic, heh.

      While I agree that "property destruction" per se, is less a moral issue than a tactical one...the tactical strategy of non'"violence" is presently one of the strongest elements of consensus in the movement, and in the masses, and that's the real point, and the real issue here and now, seems to me.

      The masses want to do this democratically, electorally, NOT by civil war. It's on us, to Serve the People, and to at least try to give it our best shot to make it so.


      Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

      by Radical def on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 01:44:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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