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View Diary: Parents and Educators Pack Hearing to Oppose Turnaround of Chicago School (63 comments)

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  •  I don't think that's how we got here. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    entrelac, kalihikane
    "The norm used to be public schools. If a parent had a problem with a school, they could transfer their kid to a different one."
    This was never true. If you did not like your public school, you had to buy a new house in a more expensive suburb. The anti-choice crowd tends to gloss over this fact: School choice has always existed for the rich and only for the rich.

    This Chicago fiasco has nothing to do with Charters, Choice, or any sort of real reform. They are firing a set of not-for-profit managers and replacing them with another set of not-for-profit managers.

    The schools will remain Traditional Public Schools, open to all, free to attend, taxpayer financed. The difference is that teachers will have new set of Administrators to waste teaching time -- instead of the old set of Administrators who wasted teaching time.

    •  I don't know if you can compare Chicago (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil, aerie star

      to anyplace else. It's looks to me like a stew of everything you can do wrong in public education. "Choice" appears to be "give all the money to this one school where the wealthy white people are moving" and then a few disadvantaged kids can get bussed an hour across town to attend. If they can meet the demands of the competitive enrollment process.

      Sure, if money was infinite, go ahead and throw a few more million at private venture education firms and more choice and charters and another 3 or 4 different sets of competitive enrollment tests, starting in kindergarten, because we all have nothing but time and money. But from here (and in my admittedly jaded eyes) it looks like the sort of thing we'll reading case studies about in 20 years as lessons on how to waste money.

    •  Really? In the eighties, my sisters attended (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil, Linda Wood, Minnesota Deb

      three different schools without moving, and we were square in the bottom end of lower middle class.

      You continue to try to treat charters as an individual phenomenon, completely unrelated to and isolated from traditional public schools. It is a continuum, with the problems in one area overlapping and affecting other areas. The general public has a perception of "education in this country", with no real understanding of the actual issues, and when charters fail, reduce funding for, or show miserable educational outcomes, it just reinforces that general perception of the failure of education even further, with the predictable result of the kinds of actions being taken in Chicago - which does further harm to public education.

    •  Why always focused on teachers as primary... (1+ / 0-)
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      ManhattanMan

      ...reason "schools are failing"? My personal opinion is that a lot envolves parents and their student children not being tuned into the need to succeed in the learning process. How this happened on such a large scale in US society I don't have a clue but it is a fundamental change in attitude on part of people and their schools. Blame the messenger ( school and teacher) has been the easy target for last 20-30 years. Maybe we need to have all parents complete an entrance application attesting to their agreement to the requirements that they are held to responsibility their children give a full effort to fullfil the academic requirements and social behavioral norms ...et al..
      ...whatever...and also require that teachers be reviewed on annual basis by their peers, school administration, and students. imho

      Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

      by kalihikane on Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 04:49:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not politically possible. (0+ / 0-)
        "Maybe we need to have all parents complete an entrance application attesting to their agreement to the requirements that they are held to responsibility their children give a full effort to fullfil the academic requirements and social behavioral norms ...et al.."
        The most blame belongs with the parents and the socioeconomic situation they're in. But blaming parents is a political impossibility -- no matter how richly they deserve this blame.

        So, we need to make the schools better.

        I actually don't think the problem is "bad teachers". I think that the problem is that teacher have no incentive to deliver good results and are tied down by bureaucracy and administrative interference.

        •  really? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Minnesota Deb, Fonsia
          teacher have no incentive to deliver good results
          Why do you think people choose education as a career? I think many do it because they want to "deliver good results" -- teach children well.
          •  Bravo. (0+ / 0-)

            I really do not understand the teacher bashing in this country.

            I mean, teachers commit to a lifetime of neverending hours (you spend summers getting ready for the next year, folks) at pay that's never going to get you anywhere, for the sole purpose of helping children learn.

            So why do so many people believe that teachers must be forced to do their jobs?

            Enjoy the San Diego Zoo's panda cam! Now in high definition!

            by Fonsia on Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 08:06:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't understand the teacher bashing (0+ / 0-)

              either. But I understand the outrage of parents and taxpayers when teaching methods, which are not designed by teachers, have a negative impact on so many kids that we're looking at the closing of schools and the takeover of public education by profiteers.

              I think the privatization interests have created the meme of teacher bashing in order to distract attention from bad curriculum products that have destroyed so much of what was good about public education.

      •  Parents who are suing districts over fuzzy math (1+ / 0-)
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        ManhattanMan

        are saying that they cannot help their children with their homework because the curricular products districts are using have no texts and are as incomprehensible to parents as they are to students.

        I sense that people who are truly interested in education here at DailyKos often know nothing about the Reading Wars and the Math Wars that have been going on in this country for 2 decades about actual curriculum products, about what students and their families are having to deal with in the way of teaching methods sold as products, especially in reading and math.

        The parents who are challenging these trends are extremely interested in what their children are confronted with in school. The picture I get here at DailyKos is that the schools are doing everything they can while parents are blowing it off and failing to motivate their kids. I urge you to look into these issues more thoroughly.

        •  Many different groups of parents (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kalihikane, ManhattanMan

          The parents who participated in the reading wars and math wars were largely well educated middle class and above parents as well as some of the most motivated parents in the lower class.

          The parents I was referring to who are not motivated to get a better assignment for their children than the worst of the general neighborhood schools in Chicago are probably not themselves aware of the math wars or reading wars (though they may have been victims of them).

          •  Yes, many, possibly close to majority of... (0+ / 0-)

            ...parents are more focused on "survival" of their family or at least keeping up with payments and do not have those busy body who come out of the woodwork and advocate for better and fairer education for everyone in an particular school district.

            Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

            by kalihikane on Fri Feb 10, 2012 at 07:46:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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