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View Diary: My neighbor is yesterday's school shooter (134 comments)

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  •  My ex attended that school...errr...some time ago, (5+ / 0-)

    lived a few blocks away, kinfolk still do. A number of them are LEO's there and elsewhere. Police responded appropriately IMO.

    Waving 'just a pellet pistol' is no excuse. I have two of them (and many actual firearms) and both look very 'real', one is powerful enough to be lethal at closer ranges.

    The school (Cummins MS., the Red Ants) on busy 6th Street, is adjacent to the Gladys Porter Zoo and a park too, not that far from downtown Brownsville (the Cameron County courthouse and BVL PD are also just a few blocks away, the PD was/is just down 6th St. a block away).

    "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

    by Bluefin on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 08:08:26 PM PST

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    •  Completely different responses by the PD. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mrkvica

      One instance of discharging an actual firearm near a school and an apartment.
      The other, a 15 year old kid, brings a pellet gun to school and shouts threats. One "gunman" is alive; the other isn't.
      Sure, aimed correctly, a pellet gun can be "lethal at closer ranges".
      Seems the PD faced with the actual "shots fired" exercised more discretion before making the decision to use deadly force.
      I realize hindsight and all; just seems a different standard of judgement was applied and a kid acting stupid got killed.

      Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

      by Thousandwatts on Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 07:19:39 AM PST

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      •  In one case (Catilinus' neighbor) the police (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DarkLadyNyara, Bluefin

        yelled "Put down the gun!" and he threw it down and charged them without it. So they went to non-lethal force (tried to taze him).

        In the other case, the police yelled "Put down the gun!" and the kid pointed the gun at them. They had no way to know it was a pellet gun. They shot him.

        It's heartbreaking to think of that kid and his family. It's tragic. I keep wondering what he thought he was doing, what he thought would happen...

        But I don't think the standard of judgement can be "If the person with the gun is young, let them fire a time or two and see what happens."

        Police do die in the line of duty. I don't think they can realistically be asked to just spot the gunman the first shot.

        •  Of course, the standard of judgement shouldn't be, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrkvica
          "If the person with the gun is young, let them fire a time or two and see what happens."
          but that is in effect had already happened in the case of the neighbor. The police knew he had a live firearm. He had been shooting it. And he put the gun down when it jammed. They tried tazing him etc, but he attacked the officers. And they subdued him.
          The kid was being chased in the school.
          Moments before he was killed, Jaime began to run down a hallway, but again faced officers. Police fired down the hallway — a distance that made a stun gun or other methods impractical, Rodriguez said.
          They shot the kid three times. Here's one of the article. I am not one to automatically assume the police are at fault; I know they have a tough job and are made to make split second life and death decisions. As I originally indicated, my point is that a completely different standard was applied. The entire fatal incident after the police arrived took less than an hour.
          And no, a younger person shouldn't be allowed to fire a few rounds before he is shot, but realizing it is a kid and he hasn't yet fired a single round anywhere, at anything before responding with deadly force, should definitely be considered.

          Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

          by Thousandwatts on Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 09:49:26 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What Fiona said. The BVL police did not know (0+ / 0-)

            whether the kids weapon was a firearm or pellet gun.
            If it had been a firearm and the kid had ducked into a classroom off that hallway, and then shot some students or teachers, the police would be criticized for inaction.
            It's possible that the officers didn't know "he hasn't yet fired a single round", comms are always a little garbled.

            As far as using "beanbags", not all the responding officers are going to be carrying a shotgun loaded with them.

            The kid was being chased in the school.
            As far as: "...my point is that a completely different standard was applied.", you may have a point.
            This is Texas, and I have noticed a definite police trend towards deploying and sometimes using overwhelming deadly force.
            Whether it is justified I don't know, but I know when it began. TX police tactics began to change after two officers were gunned down on State Hwy 100, east of Los Fresnos back in 1981. A subsequent DPS investigation recommended extensive changes in interfacing with the public (not just suspects) that have evolved since then. Even then two deputies and a DPS trooper were ambushed and killed near Pleasanton in 1999, among many others since.
            These are tough calls, if you have never faced a deadly threat you might not see it the same way.

            "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

            by Bluefin on Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 01:55:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That was my point,a different standard was applied (0+ / 0-)

              and I am well aware it's Texas. I am a native Texan having lived here over fifty years, I have grown up witnessing the various police agencies utilize deadly force, justified and otherwise.
              I have also watched the police forces realize we are a big state with a growing population of all sorts of people and we are on the border. And Brownsville is South Texas, not a major metro area. If this was Houston or Dallas, there would have probably been a lot more "discussion".
              I read accounts that put the time frame of the incident from start to finish at around twenty minutes. That's pretty quick to respond, assess and act, even when time is of the essence. I am not second guessing or using hindsight to judge, just reviewing the facts as reported.
              Not sure where the garbled comm info you mentioned was reported, or whether or not the officers had bean bags, it was the police spokesman who mentioned it in the reports I saw. Point there being there was a distance that only bullets could breach.
              I know these are tough calls; that's why they are called tough calls. Tough calls need to have lots of scrutiny, the easy calls, not so much.

              Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

              by Thousandwatts on Thu Feb 09, 2012 at 02:41:31 PM PST

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