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View Diary: Occupy Oakland Declares Love on Oakland. (65 comments)

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  •  disavowing them will make little difference (6+ / 0-)

    i mean, if you find it important for your own reasons to do so then by all means do so, but it won't disrupt the media attacks.

    •  I know. I just hate handing them the ammunition. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, elwior, hooper, JayRaye

      When I'm trying to convince our friends and acquaintances that Occupy has a real message and sell them on how we need to do things differently, it's really hard when they see folks burning flags. And those folks are 50+ they just don't take kindly to those images.

      "We're here to start a dialog, nothing more. We keep quiet and let the press, the politicians, and the Wall Streeters hang themselves." h/t .- pistols at dawn. I'm a Sacramento/San Joaquin Kossack. Are You?

      by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 08:16:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i understand (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FogCityJohn, mrsgoo, elwior, alizard, JayRaye

        i'm just not sure that it matters whether any flags are ever burned, the claims will be there regardless, and people prepped to believe it will believe it if it comes from the usual sources of agitprop.

        i think it's a dumb symbolic action, and wish people doing anything would think through the purposes and intended consequences of their actions before they do them, but i'm not sure the 50+ YO folks reading about it in the papers or hearing about it on talk radio are really going to be swayed no matter what the protesters actually do on the streets of oakland. we've reached a post-reality political world, for many.

        it's when they see things with their own eyes that talking points can be dislodged. before then, it's tough unless people are already suspicious they're being lied to.

        •  no flags were burned, i saw the video, (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, mrsgoo, elwior, JayRaye

          after the much, a protester was pulled over for a driving a car with a broken headlight and arrested, a small crowd from the ftp march came over to see what was happening and upon learning the b.s. reason for pulling over the car and arrest, started to mill about with cameras going. Two people got  very close to a parked police car/police officers and were arrested, rather violently. youtube

          Solvent Green is Grandma

          by mad cow on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 08:48:37 PM PST

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          •  So that is probably why those photos were pulled. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, elwior, hooper, JayRaye

            They were bullshit from something else to start with. Citizen Journalists are doing a wonderful job at constraining the lies.

            "We're here to start a dialog, nothing more. We keep quiet and let the press, the politicians, and the Wall Streeters hang themselves." h/t .- pistols at dawn. I'm a Sacramento/San Joaquin Kossack. Are You?

            by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 09:06:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  There was a flag burned earlier in the march.... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, elwior, JayRaye

            as it was returning downtown via Broadway. I saw it on the OaktownLive ustream.

            As far as I know there have been three flag burnings: the one on the 28th, and one on each of the two subsequent FTP marches. I don’t know who was responsible for the first or third, but I do know who burned the second one: it was a man who’s been bitter at the rest of the group since his finance proposal failed, and has tried to disrupt GAs by shouting and making death threats against the Facilitation and Finance Committees. The other incidents may or may not have been sincere, but I suspect that one was only done to damage Occupy’s image.

        •  That is what I see as my job with my peeps... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, elwior, JayRaye
          it's when they see things with their own eyes that talking points can be dislodged. before then, it's tough unless people are already suspicious they're being lied to.
          I have made great headway with my little group of friends/customers. Already have one vietnam era vet who has never, ever voted - going to register D and vote this year. He's the kind of guy that the flag burning crap won't fly with. Our other friend, never ever registered or voted. I've got him very skeptical about the BS in the papers now. He is seeing what is going on. I'll about take bets he might get registered and vote this year.

          "We're here to start a dialog, nothing more. We keep quiet and let the press, the politicians, and the Wall Streeters hang themselves." h/t .- pistols at dawn. I'm a Sacramento/San Joaquin Kossack. Are You?

          by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 09:11:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Excellent work! (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mrsgoo, SouthernLiberalinMD, JayRaye

            I suppose your veteran friend has a already forgotten about how Scott Olsen was nearly killed peacefully protesting, though.

            Amazing how the image of a symbolic piece of cloth on fire can supersede the image of a flesh and blood veteran lying there bleeding as the OPD tosses a flash-bang grenade into the group of Occupiers who has come out to help him.

            •  The first guy does not even know who Scott is. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar, elwior, JayRaye

              I got to him during the first budget fiasco. He was terrified his social security check would go away and he would not be able to pay his rent. The second guy, he's a newspaper reader and he can see that what he reads is not matching up to reality. I almost have his wife ready to go to an Occupy event. She about sheeite herself when I told her I was involved but I have not had anything like the involvement you have had. {{jpm}} I really appreciate you bringing the updates here for the rest of us. I am really hoping that Occupy takes off big time again in the spring.

              "Do you want me to go somewhere or should I just shut up?" - Glenn Campbell, 2012 Grammys The Rhinestone Cowboy rocks. You Go Glenn!!

              by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 10:50:14 PM PST

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              •  Perhaps you should inform him of what (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mrsgoo, elwior, JayRaye

                happened to Scott, then.

                •  No nice way to say this. He has no interest (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  elwior, wu ming, JayRaye, jpmassar

                  whatsoever in current events. He hangs out, watches daytime teevee, takes his 85 yr old mom to the Indian casino as the highlight of their life. He lives for football on the teevee. I am truly amazed I was able to get to him at all. And I will be prodding him to make sure he gets registered to vote. Which is funny, his late wife, stoner to the bone was an avid voter. But she could never talk him into it apparently.

                  "Do you want me to go somewhere or should I just shut up?" - Glenn Campbell, 2012 Grammys The Rhinestone Cowboy rocks. You Go Glenn!!

                  by mrsgoo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 11:02:14 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  not to everyone (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayRaye, jpmassar

              A lot of Marines took notice.

              Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 05:18:52 AM PST

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          •  well done! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JayRaye, jpmassar

            it takes a long investment of time to pull that off, i have found.

          •  Good Work (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            You might remind your friends that one person out out 1000s burned a flag. I am over 60, and remember the Viet Nam anti-war protesters. We also had some bad actors on the fringe burning flags. Yet the movement continued with mass protests. We cannot give up because of the actions of a few whom we cannot control.

            If there's a reason for the rich to rule, please Lord, tell us why. -Battle of Jericol, Coal Mining Women

            by JayRaye on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 08:06:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  True that much of the media will still report (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayRaye, jpmassar

      anything they can that looks bad, but I still think it's important.  There is power in the moral high ground, and it'll give some of the media something else to report.  

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