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  •  Exactly. What could "pro-abortion" mean but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HappyinNM

    something like being for forced abortion? Or seeing abortion as a good thing in itself? (Which is the attitude that anti-abortionists seem to think that pro-choice people have, as that Onion article I linked to suggests.)

    In other words, I think that just because "anti-abortion" is a useful and sensible term, this doesn't mean that "pro-abortion" is a term that makes any sense. So I don't think that we need the term "pro-abortion", because what that position comes down to is being pro-choice. (I was responding to a post where someone said there is a difference between the two. As I said in another post, I think that "pro-choice" means well-reasoned, responsible, and informed choice, which implies that in many cases the right choice is unambiguously going to be to have an abortion.) This is analogous to anti-Semitism. People use that term all the time, even though there is no such thing as Semitism or pro-Semitism.

    Finally, speaking of being pro-abortion is just very bad PR, because it reinforces the paranoid fantasies of wingnuts.

    •  I don't think we're quite on the same page, but it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dsb, HappyinNM

      would be splitting hairs to continue.  I am entirely pro-abortion.  I think it's a medical and responsible procedure.

      Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

      by CarolinNJ on Tue Feb 14, 2012 at 11:58:55 PM PST

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      •  I am entirely pro-abortion, too (0+ / 0-)

        I just don't think that putting it that way is a good way to win the culture wars.

        Being pro-abortion will make "social conservatives" think things like, you consider having an abortion to be a necessary rite of passion for becoming a woman. That having an abortion is a "wonderful part of being a woman", like having a baby.

        I mean, we all live in the same country, so I think we should make a little effort to see how the wingnuts, crazy as they are, will respond to the language we use.

        •  not "right of passion": "rite of passage" n/t (0+ / 0-)
        •  You don't get the type. They'll find something to (3+ / 0-)
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          Alexandre, wishingwell, HappyinNM

          pick at no matter what.  That's why they make up stuff:  if there's nothing to pick at, they'll invent.  The object is to WIN, to overpower, to dominate.  By whatever means.  For them, winning makes right.

          So, say whatever you want.  The only thing they acknowledge is mastery.  It's the authoritarian psychological set.  I grew up with two of them.  Integrity means nothing to them, winning is everything.  Winning makes integrity.  Get it?

          When they can make you cautious and careful, they've won.

          Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

          by CarolinNJ on Wed Feb 15, 2012 at 02:48:11 AM PST

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          •  Yes, I overlooked that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HappyinNM, CarolinNJ

            They will say the same things about us whether we use the term "pro-abortion" or not.

            I always thought the expression "pro-choice" is lame and silly, by the way. Having a "right to choose" is simply an integral part of living in a free society, so it's counterproductive to say that a woman having a "right to choose" whether to have an abortion or not is something specific and special, as opposed to all the other freedoms that people living in a free society have.

            So where I'm still maintaining my position is that I don't think it makes sense to say that there's a difference between being "pro-choice" and "pro-abortion".

            Finally, as a man, I don't see that having easy access to abortions is a women's issue at all. It's simply a part of what it is like to live in a free and just society. (Hatred of women is certainly one motivation wingnuts have for being against abortion, but I do not believe that Western society itself is inherently patriarchal. One can see that simply by considering the attitude of Jesus towards women as related in the Gospel.)

            •  I agree that in some settings and with some people (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HappyinNM, Alexandre

              language makes a difference.  However, the antis have shifted the Overton window way to the extreme right being aggressive and strident and loud.  Mincing around and uming and ering and calling things what they patently aren't doesn't persuade.  Forthright, unapologetic, and unconditionally assertive is a very effective technique.  William Buckley lived on it for years.  Hitchens was another(I found Hitch immensely entertaining but his warmongering was obnoxious and horribly irresponsible.)

              Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

              by CarolinNJ on Wed Feb 15, 2012 at 11:38:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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