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  •  Honestly? because most cops are crappy shots, they (5+ / 0-)

    only shoot enough to barely make their yearly qualification and that's it....

    Most average gunnies I know get way more practice than the average cop.  Also a pistol is difficult to shoot accurately esp when you're flushed with adrenalin and fear....

    Plus if they try that trick shot to the leg and miss, they endanger everyone else nearby....so they're taught to shoot center mass until the threat stops, ie the person stops moving.....

    I remember more than one incident here in Tucson where the cops, plural, took multiple shots at a person only to completely miss or maybe one hit out of 20+ shots.....worst I remember is them confronting a naked guy in the middle of one of the largest intersections in town, surrounding him then when he lunged toward one they opened fire...iirc 35 rounds and one hit...in the groin.....

    I say we'd be better off if we paid them to practice and train which except for the special weapons groups and such, does not happen...and I can't see it in the near future...Ammunition is expensive and it's not like the old days where the Dept. armorer would reload so they could save a few bucks and shoot more...too much liability supposedly so no more reloads to train with and defensive ammo is over a buck a round......

    Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
    I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
    Emiliano Zapata

    by buddabelly on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 08:59:04 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Bullets aren't cheap, no? (4+ / 0-)

      I can certainly understand why individual police wouldn't want to be spending a lot of time practicing, and why departments wouldn't want to pay for them to burn through bullets in extra practice.

      Still, they'd probably be better off upping the allowance for bullets and spending less on things like riot gear and tear gas canisters...

      •  spending less on things like (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        Lawsuits, maybe???

        I know all the advice about center of mass and deadly force and stuff, but why kill a guy that just has a knife or a broken bottle?

        Because you can. And still get your pension.

        Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

        by blindcynic on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 03:14:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's horseshit. (2+ / 0-)

          Deadly force is met with deadly force. Go look up the Tueller drill and realize why.

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Tue Feb 14, 2012 at 07:01:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agree with caveats, like the one I described (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KVoimakas

            upthread....the guy was naked with a knife surrounded by multiple cops with pr24s,  tasers,  and less than lethal ammunition options as well as their gun.

            I think that the force needs to be proportionate to the threat and in that one, naked dude was not really any threat....esp compared to all those expended rounds that hit Ghu knows where......

            Now only cop against suddenly aggressive person that can offer a credible threat, that's a reasonable use of deadly force......

            It's such an individual area and so easy to stereotype on both sides of the discussion......there are lots of bad cops and bad shoots....there's also lots of good cops and good shoots.....

            each needs to be looked at in context....

            plus "suicide by cop" seems to be gaining in popularity...at least it seems that way anecdotally...no stats that I know of....

            Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
            I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
            Emiliano Zapata

            by buddabelly on Tue Feb 14, 2012 at 01:06:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  what a pain in the ass (4+ / 0-)

      We can afford to give the LRADS but not practice rounds! Goddammit, what is wrong with the spending priorities in this country!

      Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 11:24:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  no matter what maig and brady say, small arms (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KVoimakas

        manufacturers and the corresponding ammunition manufacturers are tiny compared to companies like Lockheed and Raytheon and such that make high tech weaponry like the LRAD....

        So when it comes to budgeting, the companies that spend the bucks lobbying, the lockheeds and Raytheons of the world stomp all over the small arms manufacturers...

        Plus it's America, even in basic crowd control we want some fancy gadget that does the job..... old fashioned community policing is just so boring......

        In my world there would still be a dept Armorer reloading the practice rounds for the officers so they felt and hit just like the carry ammo but at a fifth or less of the cost....

        Then the duty gun is loaded with factory ammunition for the actual shifts...

        Plus pay the officers at least 3 hours a week to practice, if they want to shoot more great,  supply the ammo,  but only pay for 3 or so......

        Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
        I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
        Emiliano Zapata

        by buddabelly on Tue Feb 14, 2012 at 01:53:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I've taken LEO training *with* LEOs. (4+ / 0-)

      I've competed against them.

      When you (a 'gun nut' civilian) beat them soundly, well...

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Mon Feb 13, 2012 at 01:31:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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