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View Diary: Announcing Operation Hilarity: Let's keep the GOP clown show going! (641 comments)

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  •  Now I'll say, "Huh?" (11+ / 0-)

    First of all, I don't think you can find many people on this site who like Ron Paul, so that's a strawman.  There are some people who said they agreed with certain of Paul's policy objectives (e.g., ending the drug war), or who, like Glenn Greenwald, were happy to see Paul raising issues because that got the MSM talking about them.

    But even pointing that out was considered heresy, and Meteor Blades even wrote a diary about how saying anything remotely approving of Paul should be impermissible for progressives.

    So those of us in the LGBT community legitimately have to wonder why Santorum is okay when Paul is untouchable.  Whether or not you agree with his ideas, you'll be helping him continue to have a platform for his homophobia.  After all, the longer he remains a force in the race, the longer the media will report on his noxious views.  You may think this harmless.  All Scottie is trying to get you to see is that it isn't, at least not in some areas of the country.

    I suppose this is an area where we'll simply have to disagree.  I am certainly not naive enough to think that the objections of a few gay people are going to cause anyone around here to change his or her mind.

    "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

    by FogCityJohn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 at 05:11:41 PM PST

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    •  I think you're both wrong. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, ctami

      And no matter how many times I've now explained it, I'm not sure why y'all are having such a hard time understanding that we're not endorsing Santorum's policies in any way (unlike some of those Paul fans). We are trying to win an election. And it's just so unbelievably laughable that people are arguing our little operation is somehow responsible for Santorum having a platform. I mean, come on. He's a leading (in some states) candidate for the GOP nomination. He's gonna have a platform regardless.

      This is about winning. Don't you guys want to win? Weakening the Republican Party, and whichever moron they choose as their nominee, helps us. I really don't understand why that's so difficult to grasp, but okay. Agree to disagree, whatever.

      •  Just curious.... (11+ / 0-)

        Was this "focus grouped" outside of Kos Media?  Seems to be going over like a lead, um, elephant.

      •  Guess we're not as smart as you straight folks. (6+ / 0-)

        You can save the snide BS, Kaili.  Try responding to me when you can come up with a comment without an army of strawmen.

        Yes, for the record, I do want to win.  And no, your strategy isn't difficult to grasp, and I've fully grasped it.  I just think it's not a very good idea.

        So go ahead and help your fave homophobe.  I wish you luck.  You're going to need it from the looks of the rec list.

        Oh, and the next time you try to tell me that you give a shit about homophobia, please forgive me if I don't believe you.  

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 at 08:11:07 PM PST

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        •  Oh sure. It's totally a gay only thing. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          You know what? Spare me. Please. Santorum's policies on women would hurt me personally, regardless of my sexual orientation. Hell, his policies on Jews are pretty personally offensive to me too. Have you seen his "Chanukah" card?

          In fact, I find it pretty fucking offensive that some people are suggesting this is especially unfair to gays. Like gays are the only ones who would be hurt by Santorum. Seriously, spare me. I've been writing for a long time about Santorum's hatred of women. You think I want that SOB implementing his "barefoot and pregnant" policies?

          You wanna throw around some bullshit about my insensitivity to what personally offends you most about Santorum? Fine. Knock yourself out.

          I'll say this: I'm pretty glad I'm going on vacation for the next week. I hope to hell y'all have tired yourselves out by then.

          Jesus fucking Christ. I mean, really.

          •  Oh, the "mean old gays" thing again. (9+ / 0-)

            Yeah, we just can't seem to stop our whining.  

            Seriously, if you are incapable of understanding why gay people would find this idea offensive, then I really don't know what to tell you.  You seem to believe this is all about what offends me "personally" about Santorum.  Suffice to say that homophobia is a problem that extends beyond me "personally."

            And the fact that Santorum is a sexist and antisemite makes your support of this only more incomprehensible.  


            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Wed Feb 15, 2012 at 08:25:01 PM PST

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        •  Please don't speak on behalf of all gay people (0+ / 0-)

          on this site. We don't all agree with you.

          •  I don't presume to. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Scott Wooledge, 4kedtongue

            I am expressing my own opinion, one that appears to be shared by a number of other gay users in this instance.  But by all means, please feel free to support Rick Santorum. Apparently, his views are much more acceptable than those of Ron Paul.

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Thu Feb 16, 2012 at 09:40:18 AM PST

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            •  Your comment (0+ / 0-)

              made it clear you were speaking on behalf of all gays on this blog:

              Guess we're not as smart as you straight folks.
              Unless of course, you're Queen Victoria.


              one that appears to be shared by a number of other gay users in this instance
              2 ?  Frankly, I'm sick of some of you who presume to represent the gay community on this site. You don't.

              I have no intention of supporting Rick Santorum as I had no intention of supporting Ron Paul. Its called being consistent. What cranks my ass is the hypocrisy of some of you who tacitly supported Ron Paul and are now clutching your pearls over Santorum. Thats rank hypocrisy. And to see you now bring this up as an issue is laughable.

              Lastly, don't put words in my mouth as you did in your comment. Its an assholish thing to do.

              •  Pot, meet kettle (0+ / 0-)

                If you're asking me not to put words in your mouth, then I would kindly request that you offer me the same courtesty.  Your claim that I am supporting Ron Paul, tacitly or otherwise, is an outright lie.  

                As for hypocrisy, I don't think I'm the hypocrite here.  I explained what I see as hypocritical in this instance here:

                The proffered rationale for not saying anything good about "the few positions [Paul's] good on" was that it was propping up Paul and, so the argument goes, that gave aid and comfort to his other, extremely noxious views.  And this was said to be true even when people made clear they weren't endorsing Paul and that they condemned his other views.  In other words, with Paul, it was all or nothing.

                With Santorum, however, it seems that we are being asked to do something that will help ensure he continues to have a platform to spout his hateful rhetoric.  The longer Santorum is a contender, the longer he'll have the attention of the MSM, and thus the longer he'll have a megaphone for his views.  Somehow, unlike Paul, actual electoral support for Santorum can be separated from his offensive views.

                So while you may see a difference between the praise of Paul and the voting for Santorum, the claimed rationale for condemning the one cannot be squared with the rationale for supporting the other.

                I hope that clarifies the matter.

                "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

                by FogCityJohn on Thu Feb 16, 2012 at 04:23:26 PM PST

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      •  kaili, (7+ / 0-)

        as a 66 year old white, straight woman from the south - i can tell you absolutely that votes for santorum, no matter by WHOM, will "endorse" his policies to those who wear white sheets.

        the apparent "acceptance" of him as a candidate is enough justification for the most bigoted to feel that they are being supported in their hatred.

        winning?  this is NOT about "winning" - this is about f*cking around with the political system for adolescent amusement...

        the problem is that the ones who will be hurt and harmed are the most vulnerable.

        the creeps who crawl out from under rocks, who tie young men like matthew shepherd to fence posts, who beat and murdered gwen aruajo are looking for justification for their hatred and bigotry.

        votes for santorum signify approval from a national perspective.

        ricidule the bigot.  alienate the bigot.  expose the bigot.  but, for GOD'S sake, don't VOTE for the bigot so he can have a longer time to spew his bile and hatred so that others will feel vindicated in their actions.

        incendiary rhetoric begets incendiary actions by cowards who only crawl out under the guise of "acceptance".

        for all of our sakes, call off this stupid and ignorant and ill-advised "campaign".

        this is NOT a freaking game - real people's lives are at stake here.

        EdriesShop is currently reloading! More to come in the next few days! - Is GlowNZ back yet?

        by edrie on Thu Feb 16, 2012 at 12:45:16 AM PST

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        •  Thank you for that. (6+ / 0-)

          Very touching.

        •  My life. My friend's lives: (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Scott Wooledge, FogCityJohn, edrie
          this is NOT a freaking game - real people's lives are at stake here.
          Thank you for this. This is an excellent comment.

          One important thing I think a lot of people are missing is exactly what you said: this is hurting real people. This is hurting (though the campaign itself is not coming to my state personally, to be clear) me and it's hurting my friend in Tennessee who is transgender and gay, who posted comments on this site last night about how this will affect his state.

          People who actually live in areas that are going to be hurt by anti-LGBT rhetoric, whether it's because we live in a targeted state or it's because spreading this stuff nationally creates hostile environments for us, should be listened to and taken seriously.

          This is a terrifying, really messed up thing that is really hurting people. It's going to affect community members here.

          Read my stuff at burn after writing and The Huffington Post @indiemcemopants on Twitter

          by Scottie Thomaston on Thu Feb 16, 2012 at 10:17:19 AM PST

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