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View Diary: Where were the bishops when Troy Davis died? (264 comments)

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  •  The case of Gene Robinson (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sb

    happened within his church. Irrelevant.

    And, again, I don't care what the Catholic bishops say. I care that they try to force that into government. What about that do you not understand? I DO NOT CARE what any Catholic bishop thinks about anything.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:29:01 AM PST

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    •  Again, you can't have it both ways. (0+ / 0-)

      Just as you can accuse the USCCB of hypocrisy on this -- and just as they are in fact being hypocrites -- so you have to deal with reality.  Either you need to recognize and accept that people should act on their beliefs or you should not; you can't have it both ways.

      •  I never said that people can't act on their (0+ / 0-)

        beliefs. This is so simple. You do realize, don't you, that there is a difference between a "person" and a "church?"

        What about that are you not understanding?

        P.S. I am not a crackpot.

        by BoiseBlue on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:38:33 AM PST

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        •  Oh, I understand your argument... (0+ / 0-)

          The problem isn't with me -- the problem is that it's nonsense.  Either the Bishops can collectively intervene in secular politics or they can't.  It's that simple.  If you want to say they never should, then that's fine, the USCCB shouldn't have spoken out against the execution of Troy Davis -- but, in that case, there's nothing for you to complain about in his case.

          So, which one is it?

          •  One can believe (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            alizard

            that the bishops should not interject themselves into politics at all (i.e., should not "speak out" on any political issue), while still recognizing hypocrisy in their decisions to

            (1) engage in an all-out battle with the Obama adminstration about contracetptive coverage, but

            (2) never utter a peep about the killing of a human being by the state, financed by taxpayer dollars.

            "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

            by NWTerriD on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:55:00 AM PST

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            •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

              But that's the argument I'm making, not the argument BoiseBlue is making.  You're absolutely right, the Bishops are hypocrites on this. For that matter, so is BoiseBlue, and so is Atkins, the original diarist.  I'm not arguing about that; it's true and obvious.

              I'm arguing against the far broader argument that BoiseBlue is advancing, which comes down to "your religion must remain private; no church should ever act collectively."  That's a profoundly dangerous and anti-democratic sentiment.

              •  No, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BoiseBlue, stunvegas

                that's not the argument you're making. You're arguing that if someone believes the bishops shouldn't speak out, then that person can't complain about hypocrisy on the part of the bishops.

                In my comment, I'm not taking any position on the "bishops are hypocrites" issue, per se, or on the "bishops should stay out of politics" issue, per se. I'm saying that there is no hypocrisy on the part of Kossacks who think the bishops should keep their mouths shut, and yet are of the opinion that the bishops are being hypocritical when they practice selective mouth-shutting.

                "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

                by NWTerriD on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 12:53:03 PM PST

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          •  I said it from the very beginning (0+ / 0-)
            I'm not a Catholic, so what they believe and how they live means absolutely nothing to me. As long as they keep it within their own church.
            Did I ever say they should speak out on Troy Davis? No. I said I don't give a flying fuck what they believe. I don't care if they believe the death penalty is wrong or right, I don't care if they believe abortion is wrong or right. I'm not a Catholic. I do not care what the Catholic church believes.

            I care that they have the audacity to intervene in American politics. That's it. Whether I agree with them on any given point is irrelevant. Keep it in the church. I don't want to hear it.

            P.S. I am not a crackpot.

            by BoiseBlue on Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 11:56:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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