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View Diary: The Importance of Governance (227 comments)

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  •  Welcome (4.00)
    I know your campaign will be watched carefully by the Kossacks.  And I hope that you will be willing to respond to our comments on your diaries here!
    •  thanks (3.85)
      I'm on staff with Corzine, so I'll float around this thread and answer the questions that I can.  

      I'm a big fan of epluribus media.  Do you read pressthink?

      •  Matt... (3.50)
        email me at NYBri at epluribusmedia dot org.  I am always looking to establish relationships with staff on Capital Hill...so we can keep you all posted as to what we are up to and potentially get some comments for our stories.

        NYBri

      •  Freedom (1.70)
        I live in New Jersey and quite frankly I am still furious with that prude Christie Todd Whitman for passing a law prohibiting women from going topless in clubs that serve alcohol. If you want my vote support allowing strip clubs to permit topless dancing. New Jersey is one of about three states (the others are in deep red states) that don't allow women to go topless in strip clubs. You would be surprised this is a very big issue for many people and it goes to the heart of preserving freedom. A free country does not throw women in jail for taking their top off in a strip club. It is amazing sometimes how out of touch politicians are. Who knows what's next - maybe doctors are going to be prohibited from doing breast examinations in New Jersey?
        •  East Paterson, N.J. (AP) ... (2.77)
          Senator John Corzine, campaigning for New Jerey Governor, held a press conference today in the "Shaken Not Stirred," a former titty bar and now merely another East Paterson taproom fallen on hard times.

          "Hey, I like a good titty show just as much as the next guy does," said Corzine, as he introduced former President Bill Clinton. "Bill and I both believe that it's a gross infringment of the rights of all New Jerseyans, men and women alike, that girls in this state aren't allowed to shake shake shake their boobies in these pissholes. I mean, shit, it's just plain ridiculous on the face of it ... Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

          "If elected, I promise to work my tail off to see to it that this reprehensible law is taken off the books, and when it is, President Clinton and I will be sitting right here in East Paterson, right here in the front row, stuffing twenties into the babes' g-strings right along with the rest of you guys!"

          "And now I'd like to introduce my nineteen year old daughter, Jenny 'Lotta Stuff' Corzine, who's touring the state on my behalf. And don't be stingy with those twenties, fellas, they go straight into my campaign fund ..."


          Ummmmm, right ...

          •  That's pretty freaking-A funny (none)
            "Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

            "...psychopaths have little difficulty infiltrating the domains of...politics, law enforcement, (and) government." Dr. Robert Hare

            by RubDMC on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 02:01:28 PM PDT

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          •  To All The Dicks Who Troll-Rated Me ... (3.00)
            Ya'll can kiss my Jersey ass. Twice. And three times on Sunday.

            And ya'll can get the sticks outta yours.

            Jeeeezus, don't you people have senses of humor?!

            Irony? Sarcasm ? Don't get out much, eh?

            As we used to say in Jersey, "Jeeeeeeeeeezus H. Christ on a freakin' bicycle!"

            "Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

            by gwhayduke on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 03:51:58 PM PDT

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            •  No shit! (none)
              We've been overrun by a buch of toll-booth operators, drunk on their own power. Even the first guy is entitled to his rather nutty opinions, and he got some zeroes, too!

              Easy now, people!

              •  Well, Actually ... (none)
                If tossing out Big Fat Zeeeeeeroes 'cause something they read pissed 'em off is all the "power" they have, hey ... Let 'em toss. After all, they probably need the rush they get from it, ya know?

                Reminds me of the homeless who used to push their shopping carts across Stanyan Street at Haight in front of the Cala, against the light, on their way to the Skeeve's Meadow in the park ... At first they really pissed me off, and then I realized that that was probably the only power they had in the whole wide world, being able to stop traffic on Stanyan Street, and I figured ... Hey, if makin' me stop for fifteen seconds when I had the light was the only way they could get a cheap thrill, I wouldn't begrudge it to 'em ...

                "Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

                by gwhayduke on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 09:02:33 PM PDT

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          •  Folks, lay off the 0's. (4.00)
            First of all, he's not a troll. Secondly of all, he was making a point. The point he was making was that the poster's idea was bad because the GOP would be able to portray Corzine as a sexaholic playboy similar to Clinton.

            I don't use that kind of language, but that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically troll-rate a raunchy post which has a point to it.

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feingold08/

            by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 05:09:56 PM PDT

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          •  well.... (none)
            I was going to rate this low because it seemed tacky.  Then as I read through the comments, I realized the point you were trying to make.  And it's perfectly correct.  

            If you had prefaced it with something like "Yeah, and can you imagine the headlines...." it would have helped people (like me) who's snark detectors are a bit dysfunctional.

            They're pouring mercury in my orange juice...People take to the streets and scream!!! Jon Stewart, 4/13/05

            by christine in nj on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 06:17:44 PM PDT

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          •  Sorry (none)
            I zero'ed you by accident. I'm just gonna quit using the rate all feature.
            •  Kind Of Like ... (none)
              Realizin' that you have an itchy trigger finger after you realize you forgot 'n left the safety off, eh?

              "Shit, man, them holler points sure do leave one hell of a big hole on the way out, don't they?! Damn! Hey, ummm, sorry dude ..."

              "Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

              by gwhayduke on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 01:17:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  East Paterson (none)
            That's very good. East Paterson is now Elmwood Park. There is still a West Paterson. Anyhow, I like your choice of a fictional location.

            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead

            by makemefree on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 11:45:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ahhhhh, East Paterson ... (none)
              Yeah, they were callin' it "Elmwood Park" the last time I was back that way, but it didn't fool anybody even back then. It'll always be East Paterson.

              And now that I think of it, I was actually once in a titty bar in East Paterson. On a date, nontheless. Her idea, even. Go figure, huh?

              Although to be fair, I don't think she knew that it was a titty bar ... She wanted to stop on the way home for a last snort at her local hangout before I dropped her off ... she was from East Paterson, natch ... and there was this chick shakin' her titties up on what passed for a bandstand, see? For some reason I got the impression that there wasn't supposed to any titty shakin' goin' on, and that she was as surpised to see it goin' on as I was to be dragged into someplace where titties was bein' shook whilst I was out on what was supposed to be a nice wholesome date ...

              Needless to say, she got more and more pissed at me every time my eyes wandered over in the direction of the alleged bandstand, finished her drink right fast, and announced that she was "ready to leave" ... despite it bein' her idea to go into the dive in the first place, and despite it bein' her local hangout ... Well, what can I say, women, there just ain't no accountin' for 'em, now is there? They drag ya into a tittie bar, and then they go 'n get bent all outta shape when ya do what you're supposed to do when you're in a titty bar, which is to give the titties a good twenty-twenty ... Come to think of it, maybe bannin' titties in titty bars ain't such a bad ideer after all, if youse know what I mean ... I'm gonna have to think this one over some more ...

              Well, equally needless to say, she was busy the next time I asked her out ...

              What can I say? She was from East Paterson, after all ...

              "Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

              by gwhayduke on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 12:46:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Big Pussy Says: Fuckin' A (2.22)
          And Tony Agrees. The Bada Bing just isn't the same anymore.
        •  Why don't you take a trip to France and go for (none)
          a day to the beach.

          When the fox preaches The Passion, farmer watch your geese.

          by reform dem on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 04:54:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  'Cause ... (none)
            They don't serve no beer on da beaches, see? All them Frog candyasses drink is wine ..."

            'N everyone knows that Titties and Beer are an American tradition, see?

            Now, youse got any more questions?

            "Who the hell ever heard of a goddamn titty bar with no goddamn titties, for chrissakes?!"

            by gwhayduke on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:41:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Glad to see you are a true patriot. (none)
              I like your accent by the way.

              Still, the beach can be very refreshing.  Maybe a day at the Jersey Shore would help, even if it wouldn't meet all your needs?

              When the fox preaches The Passion, farmer watch your geese.

              by reform dem on Sat Apr 16, 2005 at 06:11:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (none)
          Your post is fine as far as I'm concerned but I want to know why you rated NYBri a '1.'  He has to be without a doubt one of the most positive contributors to the dKos community ever.  

          Tom DeLay's GOP: cheating America in a time of war.

          by Tom Frank on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 02:50:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  thats all i want... (none)
        I think most people here would agree with me that having a staffer answer some of our questions, while as ridiculously cool as having a Senator respond, is greatly appreciated. We know "Senators running for Governor" doesn't exactly have gobs of time to blog with. Thanks for staying on the thread matt.
        •  respectfully... no it's not. (4.00)
          I really don't want the Kosmos to get into the habit of fawning, not-worthy-like, over congresspeople for mingling with mere mortals like ourselves.  

          these people work for us.  in a perfect world, they scratch our backs, and we scratch theirs.  we're organized, and smart, and active, and as such it is very much in their interest to reach out to us, and offer some back-scratching.  

          I, too, like to see Congresspeople - and Congressional hopefuls - posting here, and I encourage it.  We all on this board should take note: when they're here, it's because it matters, there's something of value here.  Let's make it count, and I don't just mean fawning.  This board is still meant to be a two-way street, and a collaborative process for all who participate.  

          For myself, I'm an NJ resident.  Of my two senators, Lautenberg is more progressive, imho.  For example, Corzine voted YES on Bush's insulting nomination of Rice to the position of Sec. of State.  I'd like to take this chance to voice my opposition.  I know the reply - "deference to selection of cabinet" - but this is the typical demurral.  If Congress was not supposed to have a real role in that process, it would not have been given a real, substantive role in that process, as it was in the Constitution.  

          Corzine, we're watching.  We care about progressivism too - a lot.  All the votes count.  

          No matter how cynical you become ... you can never keep up.

          by LegalSpice on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:40:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  GOOD ON YOU! (4.00)
            You're exactly right. If we cozy up to Senators for the mere thrill of "mingling" and "basking in their glow," then we've become as inane as DC itself.

            Your smackdown on Corzine's Condi Rice vote is ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE. It sends an important message:

            Government officials of any sort are always welcome on this site. But please don't come here solely to pump up your hip factor or smarm around for a slot in the Kos Dozen next time it runs, come here to explain what you're doing to advance the Democratic agenda and then, for goodness' sake, LISTEN to what we have to say about it and anything else you've done. That's when this relationship really starts paying dividends.

            And, since I didn't say it up top, Senator Corzine is to be commended for steering clear of the DNC, and I look forward to his - or Matt's - next post.

          •  ummmm... (none)
            So what if he voted yes rice? She was going to get the nomination anyway. We don't have enough votes to block it. If Rice is popular in New Jersey (I assume its true) and Corzine votes against her, it could become an issue in the governor's race. Why risk it for s symbolic but ultimately meaningless vote?

            Alot of people don't realize what motivates politicians to vote the way they do. Politicians are trying to stay in office first and foremost.

            If politicians find it easy and beneficial to post here, the wishes of the progressives here will play a more important role in their decision calculus'. IF they post here, and then abandon us, they will pay a bigger price than if they never posted here at all.

            If you make it a negative to post here by sprinkling every post a Congress member makes with the one vote you happen to disagree with, then we won't have as many participating here. The fact of the matter is that there are so many votes in the Senate, and so many political calculus' that we are privy to, that you don't really know the 'heart' of the politician you criticize.

            Can we save the circular firing squad for big issues? Would rather he abandon ship on Rice, when only political junkies will know or care, or would you rather he abandon ship on Social Security. Or worse, make so many symbolic stands, that he gets voted out of office for some of them, and a Republican takes the seat? Why let an opponent play a race or gender card for no policy difference?

            Congress is a game; it isn't a philosophy club. In most games, you sometimes have to make counter-intuitive moves to win. Most politicians only care about the results. If a vote doesn't change the results, it doesn't matter. Second, in the case of Rice, is her appointment really gonna make or break America? Compared to something like Banruptcy "reform" or Social Security or the war in Iraq. I mean, if she got denied, she would still be a close Bush advisor. I doubt Bush would appoint a dove as sec of state in her place.

            Heck, and Corzine isn't a DLC-shuckster, so why bash him?

            •  please. don't lecture me. (none)
              and step off - I didn't "bash" him.  you're "it's just one vote" response calls on me to bash him, though, by requesting a laundry list.  sorry, but I won't do it.

              NJ is a progressive state, to be sure.  Corzine reflects that, but not enoughh, yet.  if our two Senators compete for the title of most progressive, Lautenberg wins, clearly, not just on votes but other actions - e.g., it was Lautenberg that called for an apology from DeLay after his threats on judges two weeks ago.  why didn't Corzine join in that?  

              you suggest political fear is a good response, but it's not - and, in fact, it's a response Corzine himself REJECTED in his Nation article that this diary restates.  

              I totally disagree with your views.  I think it's absolutely right to treat our gov't officials like the normal human beings that they are - NOT to "make it worth their while" to show up here, as you suggest - with all respect, bullshit.  They need to make it worth MY while to elect them, and to listen to them - just like every other poster on this board.  

              No matter how cynical you become ... you can never keep up.

              by LegalSpice on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 06:44:45 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  ok well i met (none)
          Diana feinstein. I had breakfast with her and having her opinions on things is pretty cool. One of the best things that she said was that "Arnold is well. different then most people." i think this quote is well... Awesome.
      •  This is offensive! (none)
        I posted a legitimate post dealing with a real infringement of freedoms in the state of New Jersey and that is a law passed by wingnut republicans that requires that female dancers in strip clubs be prohibited from taking off their tops.

        I was not making a joke as this is a serious issue and a serious infringement on our freedoms. I was troll rated and so were three other people that agreed with me. I would ask that if you disagree with my position that you at least be tolerant of someone who has a different position than yours.

        This IS a real problem in New Jersey that effects state revenue as well as the choices of state residents. I personally have never been troll rated before and don't appreciate a few bigots trying to silence me.

        I noticed that after a few people troll rated me that no one else commented on my post, which tells me that the many other people who agree would not say so for fear of being troll rated.

        Women should be able to bear their breasts in strip clubs if they choose to and the government has not right to legislate morality in this way and I hope the small minority that troll rated me came be a little tolerant.

        Freedom of expression, association and to make lifestyle choices are very important freedoms and the government has no right to infringe on those freedoms!

        •  Well (4.00)
          I gotta say, I don't agree with troll-rating you, even though the comment was fairly asinine and not especially germane to the conversation occurring. It's really NOT an issue. If it was an issue, the voters of your state would be pissed off and something would be done about it. Something like a "Free the boobies!" campaign, some grass-roots bra-strippin' action. But, since such a thing appears to NOT be happening, I recommend that you just hop a ferry to New York when you feel a need to ogle.

          Granted, since many of the same people appear to have troll-rated the guy who mocked your post in reply, it would appear that people just don't want to have a conversation about breasteses here at all. Which is a shame.

          But I think Steve Martin said it best: "I could never be a woman. I'd just sit at home and play with my breasts all day."

          -Jim

          "The trouble with Communism is the Communists, just as the trouble with Christianity is the Christians." - H.L Mencken

          by herooftheday on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 02:28:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Talk about boobs. (none)
            I can assure you, it does not even register as an issue for the voters of my state.

            We've got bigger things to worry about. The highest   property taxes in the nation, the highest auto insurance rates in the nation, and sprawl - we are also the most populated state in the nation. Like breastestes is something that even registers. With the Department of HS breathing down our necks, like this even matters for god's sake.  That being said, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else right now. I feel safe in my very blue, very liberal, haven.  

            And with George Bush back in the drivers seat, with the GOP controlling all branches of the government and trashing this country's reputation, we just want a Governor to keep us safe from the scary parts of America.

            Once I can say the words Governor Corzine, I'll breathe a huge sigh of relief.

            And quite frankly, what an asinine comment to put in here. (not yours, the so called NJ concerned voter's boob concerns). Sheesh.

            Christine

            "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity." Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by jpschmid on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 07:48:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  If you're not a troll . . . (none)
          then why did you give Corzine's staffer a 1 on his post?

          That's what led me to believe you have something against Corzine and posted your comment to stir up trouble.

        •  It's not just that. (none)
          You gave NYBri, who didn't even rate you, a 1. That is called ratings abuse.

          I'll make a deal: You remove the 1's you gave to MikeS and NYBri; I'll rate your comment up. This is not a popular topic, but I don't think it should be troll-rated.

          You're new here, so you have to earn our respect. If you post about many different topics in addition to the law against NJ strip clubs, then you will earn people's respect. But if all you do is post about this, then I and many others will think you are here to promote your own agenda instead of help us win in 2006.

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feingold08/

          by Eternal Hope on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 05:03:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think your point is sexist (none)
          I think your post and your opinion are sexist.  This is 2005 so I have no intention of debating you about why I think this.  If you don't get it now, you never will.

          ...get rid of that DoD "Total Information Awareness" program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984.... AL GORE, 2003

          by TeresaInPa on Fri Apr 15, 2005 at 01:36:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Welcome (2.50)
        As a self appointed Democratic watchdog, I too often find myself railing against members of my own party for not standing up for the principles that actually define the "party of the people".

        So, not being too familiar with Senator Corzine, I decided to dig up some dirt on google. You know, for balance. Imagine instead my delight at finding this column he wrote for The Nation:


        A Time To Be Bold
        by Jon Corzine

        In recent months, as a newly elected senator, I have had to decide whether to join the Democratic Leadership Council. I have chosen not to because while I shared its founding purpose, which was to frame a successful response to President Reagan's efforts to portray Democrats as the party of "tax and spend," social engineering and failed personal responsibility, I believe that purpose has been largely accomplished.

        Today, I believe that it is vital for Democrats to stand up for a sharply defined progressive agenda--one that is committed to fighting for practical and progressive policies for working families and America's middle class--even when that means challenging powerful interests and the status quo. I am absolutely convinced that, standing on the foundation of fiscal stability that Democrats have built and to which the DLC contributed, we now have to fight for our convictions. If we begin to negotiate from the middle, the end result inevitably takes us to the right of where I believe our nation should be.

        Nothing is more relevant to this point than today's debate over the Bush tax cut proposal. Democrats must remain firmly opposed to this budget-busting plan, which provides disproportionate benefits for the richest 1 percent of our population. It is relevant and essential to our argument that this tax cut is not only unfocused and poorly timed but also unfair. In fact, if we yield on fairness before the debate begins, we forfeit our fundamental ground. That is one reason I have proposed a tax cut that gives an immediate break to everyone equally and is targeted toward working families.

        Moreover, the DLC has not convinced me that we should turn away from advocating an activist government--one that, for example, sees healthcare as a basic right for all Americans. And while compromise is an acceptable end, too much of it too soon has led to a paralysis on fundamental concerns such as healthcare, gun safety, the environment and educational opportunity.

        The importance of governance indeed. As one who sees the DLC as somewhat of a Trojan horse, I found this column immensely endearing.

        I would however, like to know how Mr Corzine can reconcile his progressive allegience to working families and the middle class, with his raising over a half million dollars from his former employer, Goldman Sachs.

        I doubt that the singular interests of Goldman Sachs --as opposed to a generally healthy economy -- and the interests of working Americans intersect very often.

        But I have an open mind. I just hope that in the future, the Senator can use his new blog and others like the Daily Kos to raise money from small donors -- thus eliminating the need for such ambiguous alliances.

        •  ok (none)
          Bush has just screwed up are entire nation how do you feel about that. I mean really who would vote for a texan idiot who has lied to, critisized and killed millions i am just a twelve year old boy and i am not brain dead.

                   I am very concerned about the nuclear option i know that i'm probably not the one to be talking about this because all of you know this but i hate george bush so please just please DON"T RE-ELCECT BUSH!

          •  I promise (3.00)
            No one will re-elect George Bush. Certainly not me.
          •  BTW (none)
            I feel pretty bad about what Bush has done to the nation too. And I agree that the nuclear option is a bad deal. Not just for Democrats, but for the country.

            I do appreciate your sentiments. Nor do I want to help Republicans. I just believe we also have to pressure Democrats to act like Democrats again. There are ways to do this without helping Republicans.

            BTW, I dig your website. Great job.

        •  corzine (4.00)
          Has imposed a $1000 limit from any donor for the whole election cycle.  This is much stricter than anyone you'll find running for office in NJ, and one of the key strategies of the campaign is to involve as many people as possible in all aspects of the campaign, including small donations.
      •  From New Yawk to Joizee: Please tell Sen Corzine (none)
         ... I would switch my two senators for him in a NY minute. I've got a case of Joizee jealousy! :-)

        No, actually, he should be cloned. Here in NY I would clone Charlie Rangel, Rep Nadler, a few others ....

        I like the way Sen Corzine votes, consistently progressive (equals COMMON SENSE + compassion) AND the way he speaks, like in that Nation article ... and that was before the progressive movement really woke up! (Man, gotta give extra credit/kudos there.)

        On issues of the utmost importance: bankruptcy, the war on Iraq, the death penalty, taxes, healthcare ... and much more ... his stances/votes are noted and much appreciated. He has most DEFINITELY won me over.

        More power to ya, Senator/Governor! Keep on keepin' on ...

        oh, ps - I hate bankruptcy bill (+ ANWR) traitor dems.

        by NYCee on Thu Apr 14, 2005 at 04:37:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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