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View Diary: The strange flip-flop of Maryland's Sam Arora on marriage equality (167 comments)

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  •  And how do we distinguish them? (1+ / 0-)
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    I'm sorry, but when it comes down to it, I would expect every single churchgoer to support abortion bans, state sponsored rape and personhood amendments.

    Not all will, but how do we know who is a fascist and who isn't?  My basic rule of thumb is that anyone who identifies themselves as a person of faith first and an American second cannot be trusted.

    •  You're lumping a lot of people (4+ / 0-)
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      Scott Wooledge, bythesea, jgilhousen, dzog

      including not a few Kossacks into that category. I don't think you'd find commonmass or Wee Mama or my other fellow Anglican Kossacks on that list. I identify as both a Christian and an American -- yet I know that the two spheres are and should remain separate. America is governed by the Constitution, not the Bible or the Koran or the Book of Mormon or any other holy book.

      Now to try to end the wars we ask our gay and straight soldiers to fight. -- Chris Hayes (modified)

      by Cali Scribe on Mon Feb 20, 2012 at 02:15:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Then you're an American first (0+ / 0-)

        If you were a Christian first, you'd be out there like Santorum trying to spread fascism and save souls to buy your way into heaven, to do the Lord's work.

        If you're not interested in using gov't force to enact your particular religious beliefs into law, then I'm not talking about you.

        But if a person's first duty is to the Lord, and all other considerations are expendable, then that person can't be trusted with my rights.

        The problem of course is that there is no way to tell who I can trust and who I can't if I put rights up for a popular vote.

    •  By their actions. (5+ / 0-)
      And how do we distinguish them?  
      I provided a good examples with Govs. Gregoire, Cuomo and O'Malley.
      •  You can distinguish (0+ / 0-)

        between moderates and jihadists by their actions.  But it isn't clear to me that you can state that the moderates are following the faith and the jihadists are perverting the faith.  It may just be the other way around.

      •  By their actions may be too late (0+ / 0-)

        Say we put individual rights up for a vote, like say gay marriage in New Jersey.  Sure we can distinguish them by their actions.  But when their actions are stripping rights away from large swaths of the American public, it's a little late at that point don't you think?

        •  Well, if your suggested remedy is (1+ / 0-)
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          to bar "the religious" from holding office, that is not only impossible it's unconstitutional.

          If your remedy is to begin a public education campaign encouraging everyone to vote only for atheists, well, that just isn't going work, and is more likely to backfire badly and deliver the opposite of the results you desire.

          All that is left is to sort the zealots from "the religious."

          •  Stop voting for civil rights (0+ / 0-)

            That's my solution.  When we stop putting our rights up for a vote, and stop with this insane notion that our neighbors get to dictate our lives, then it won't matter what religion the office holders are, because they won't have that power over us.

    •  This is key (0+ / 0-)
      My basic rule of thumb is that anyone who identifies themselves as a person of faith first and an American second cannot be trusted.
      but don't ignore the Islamic jihadists either, many liberals look the other way when dealing with them.
      •  Really? (3+ / 0-)

        Remember those several dozen Al Qeada heads on a pike, including Osama Bin Laden's that liberals cheered so enthusiastically over?

        That liberals don't see terrorists hiding under every bed and suicide bombers in every Mosque is hardly convincing evidence to me they are looking the other way.

        I think the threat of extremist Islamic terrorism is taken plenty seriously in this country. Disproportionately so.

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