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View Diary: Gay Marriage in 300 ce. St. Bacchus and St. Sergius (36 comments)

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  •  The most compelling evidence (7+ / 0-)

    of the existence of Pope Joan (in my opinion), is a tie between two incontrovertible facts:

    1) the tradition in the Roman church that continued up to the 19th century of a top official groping the pope-elect, then declaring in Latin that the pope is a man.  The chair that resembles a toilet (allowing the official to reach up and fondle the testicles) is still on display in a Vatican museum.  Why would this tradition begin unless the church had been fooled into electing a woman at some point; and

    2) Pope John XXI wanted to put to rest the legend of Pope Joan.  He convened a group of respected Vatican historians to research the question.  When they provided him a report detailing the results of their investigation, he refused to make it public, but changed his name to Pope John XXII.  I think that is pretty good evidence of what the secret conclusions of the panel were.

    And songs be heard, instead of sighs.

    by Fiddler On A Hot Tin Roof on Thu Feb 23, 2012 at 10:51:15 PM PST

    •  My mistake. (8+ / 0-)

      John XX changed his name to John XXI after receiving his report.  Like a busy hooker, I got my Johns mixed up.

      And songs be heard, instead of sighs.

      by Fiddler On A Hot Tin Roof on Thu Feb 23, 2012 at 10:56:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've read about Pope Joan (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stellaluna, Horace Boothroyd III

      and LMAO at the ball-examining toilet seat to make sure thereafter!

      #OWS #Occupy: Exposing US police brutality to the entire world.

      by OleHippieChick on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 04:19:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The early Protestants (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III

      liked to cite Pope Joan as an example to prove that the line of apostolic continuity had been broken.  That was just one more mark against the papacy in their book.  The Catholics responded by saying she didn't exist.

      There was a brief period in the 1520s when the Reformation had some potential to aid women's liberation, but both sides reinforced the patriarchy pretty quick.

      If religion means a way of life, and life's necessities are food, clothing, and shelter, then we should not separate religion from economics. - Malcolm X

      by dirkster42 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 06:59:53 AM PST

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    •  I don't have a pony in this race... (0+ / 0-)

      But I'd bet that the origins of the strange custom in #1 are related to arguments about whether one could be/should be a eunuch for God (see Origen, who was reported--by opponents of his views--to have self-castrated). Once the Church decided that to be a priest, one had to be a fully intact male, there would be need to prove that in a formal, legal way... leading to the kind of peculiar custom....

      And that predates the alleged Pope Joan by centuries. But the stool and half-informed stories certainly would have supported the story of Joan, as the idea that they were checking for eunuchs just wouldn't have been as obvious.

      "Be just and good." John Adams to Thomas Jefferson

      by ogre on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 01:43:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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