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View Diary: "Shot Attempting to Escape." (209 comments)

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  •  You're missing the point of the diary. (9+ / 0-)

    It's not about Tony Jones.  He's only used as the most recent illustration of a pattern of abuse that Chanin illustrates going back decades.

    The fact that he was shot in the back is indicative, though not definitive, of yet another incident where OPD went postal.

    •  I'm not saying that the shooting wasn't sketchy. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Caipirinha, elwior, jpmassar, eigenlambda

      When you shoot a man in the back (even an armed man) you've got some explaining to do. And I'll bet that the City of Oakland and the OPD will be working hard to cover the shooting cop's ass, especially considering the impending civil rights lawsuit.

      But for me, the main story here is the correctional system, rehabilitation and recidivism. Jones just spent 10 years in the joint, probably for something bad. He's out of prison for less than two months and he's been charged with four felonies and was shot by the police. It doesn't seem like Tony was ready to re-enter society.

      If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

      by HairyTrueMan on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 11:56:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who knows what he spent time in prison for (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, Tonedevil

        or if he actually did the crime.  For all we know it was for selling drugs that the OPD planted on him, which is exactly something that the OPD does.

        There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

        by AoT on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 01:39:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And what eveidence do you have for this? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eigenlambda

          Riiiight . . . the OPD planted drugs on this guy more than a decade ago, and now, all these years later, they deliberately hunted him down and shot him for no reason at all.

          Hmmmm . . . or maybe he's just a violent felon and a career criminal.

          •  Who said they deliberately hunted him (6+ / 0-)

            down?  You're being absurd.  They shot him in the back while he was running away and you don't give a fucking shit.  Do you even realize how fucked up that is?  Why don't we just kill everyone who has a record and runs from the cops?  They obviously deserve it in your world.

            There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

            by AoT on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 02:04:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Don't give a shit? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              eigenlambda

              Not true --  I just don't believe word this career criminal or his pal are saying.  The fact is that the dude has been charged with ROBBING someone AT GUNPOINT moments earlier, and we're supposed to feel sympathy for him just because he ridiculously claims the police shot him for no reason?  Do you have any idea how f-d up YOU sound?

              Guy goes to prison for 10 years on a felony charge.  Gets out, and within weeks, he just happens to be in a van suspected to be involved in an armed robbery, and when the police pull the van over, he takes off out of the van, but you think we should believe him when he says he didn't have a gun and they shot him for no reason at all.  Because, after all, our innocent little dear wouldn't lie, would he?

              •  You clearly have absolutely no knowledge (3+ / 0-)

                of the police situation if you think it is impossible that the police planted evidence on him.  It's what they've been doing for years and years and years.  It's one of the reasons they are headed toward federal receivership.  This isn't some giant leap.  Dude ran from the cops and they shot him in the back, that's the only thing we know that all parties agree on.  That's enough for me to say this was the wrong way to deal with it.

                but you think we should believe him when he says he didn't have a gun and they shot him for no reason at all.
                No, they shot him because he was running, and any time someone runs it means they are guilty and deserve the death penalty. Duh.
                Because, after all, our innocent little dear wouldn't lie, would he?
                And neither would our angelic little Oakland police department.

                There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                by AoT on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 02:39:31 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Again, why do you assume he had no gun? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  eigenlambda, HairyTrueMan

                  Just because his mom says he claims he had no gun?   Just weeks out of a ten-year prison term, dude's driving in a van suspected of being involved in an armed robbery.   Van gets pulled over.  Dude jumps out of the van and runs.  His mom says he claims he had no gun, but the police say he did, and that they recovered a gun at the scene.   He's now been charged with armed robbery and various gun charges, including possession of a firearm by a felon.   But, yeah, we should DEFINITELY believe mom and her sweet, angelic little felon, who would never lie about having a gun.

                  There may be cases where police brutality is an issue, but this isn't one of them.  This dude is a career criminal who likes to rob people at gunpoint, just like his drug-upped cousin with a history of gun crimes who got shot and killed by BART cops after starting a fight at a BART station.

                  But, hey, if you want to side with the two career criminals who threaten people with guns, instead of the cops who took another violent felon off the streets, just because some idiot cops act like thugs with OWS protesters, be my guest.

                  •  So it's fine to shoot anyone with a gun? (3+ / 0-)

                    Fuck that.  Your knee jerk assumption that anyone who has a criminal record is lying is nonsense.  The cops shoot people who are a threat, not people who are running away.

                    This dude is a career criminal who likes to rob people at gunpoint, just like his drug-upped cousin with a history of gun crimes who got shot and killed by BART cops after starting a fight at a BART station.
                    I'm glad you know exactly who these people are without having ever even been in the same damn city.  And I'm glad to know you have such poor morals that you on board with shooting people in the back.  Stay proud.

                    There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                    by AoT on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 03:13:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  "Anyone"? (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      eigenlambda, HairyTrueMan

                      "Anyone"?  Um, an armed felon running with a gun after being pulled over in connection with an armed robbery is not "anyone."

                      •  And they knew he was a felon (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Tonedevil

                        how exactly?  Are they magic?  You seem to think that cops all know everyone who has been in jail.  Especially with your remarks about how Grant was "known" to the BART police, which was pointed out to be completely wrong.  Of course crickets on that point.  Why do we bother with trials if the cops are so omnipotent?

                        There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                        by AoT on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 03:55:37 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Crickets? What are you talking about? (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          eigenlambda

                          I know its hard to believe, but I can't actually post responses instantly to every post that's made.   But looking at it now, you do know that was just a quote from Grant's attorney, right?  Or do we now just assume everything a plaintiff's lawyer says about the cops is true?    There's ample testimony from the Grant case that the cops at the scene knew all about Grant's history.  But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the guy who actually shot Grant didn't know about his history.  So what?  The guy was high and started a brawl, and would not calm down.  As I said, that doesn't necessarily excuse shooting the guy, but in the chaos of the situation, with a high criminal who just started a fight and was not resisting the police, it's not exactly shocking to me that he ended up getting himself shot.  Plus, knowing what WE now know -- that he was a career criminal with a history of gun crimes -- sorry, but I have exactly ZERO sympathy for the guy.   If you're a violent felon and you go and start a fight at a BART station, it should exactly some as a surprise that you end up dead.

                          Sorry, you are certainly entitled to disagree, but I sleep better knowing the cops took a couple of violent scumbags off the street.   Grant was a violent criminal, and so is his cousin.

              •  Yes. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT, Broke And Unemployed, Tonedevil

                Yes, legally, he is a poor innocent little dear until proven otherwise.  That's the way that the justice system is supposed to work -- innocent until proven guilty.

                The fact is that the guy was running away and not engaging the police.  They shot him in the back.  They attempted to kill this guy ... merely for running from the cops.

                •  Again, you don't know that (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  eigenlambda

                  His mommy said he claims he was shot running away and not engaging the police.  Why do you assume he's being truthful?   Innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean we accept everything uncritically.

                •  running from the cops? no big deal right? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Caipirinha

                  you skipped past the whole armed robbery investigation part, right?

                  Never mind that.  As a blue-eyed white guy from the suburbs, I know that you don't run away when a cop wants to talk to you.

                  Global warming is the inconvenient truth, nuclear power is the inconvenient alternative.

                  by eigenlambda on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 07:13:41 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Congratulations. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kml, joe wobblie

                    You just figured out the point of the diary!

                    As a blue-eyed white guy from the suburbs, I know that you don't run away when a cop wants to talk to you.
                    •  you know, i'm used to this kind of anti-government (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Caipirinha

                      crap from the right wing.  Why not just disband the Oakland Police, and let model citizens like this guy go about their business.

                      If running from the police is a reasonable and socially acceptable thing for just anyone to do,  then perhaps we should cut taxes to Somalia levels because we're looking at a failed state.

                      Global warming is the inconvenient truth, nuclear power is the inconvenient alternative.

                      by eigenlambda on Fri Feb 24, 2012 at 11:29:33 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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