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View Diary: Will the Democrats say 'I do' support marriage equality in 2012? (133 comments)

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  •  And might actually impede progress (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    commonmass, claude, Cedwyn, Luschnig

    if tied to the re-election campaign - and lessen chances of taking back the house.

    Without heroes we are all losers with nothing to aspire to.

    by qua on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 07:44:48 AM PST

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    •  just like DADT repeal impeded progress? (14+ / 0-)

      Because that was the exact argument being made by Democrats opposing the repeal even in the face of 70%+ support. And thanks to those cowardly voices it almost didn't happen. If you think the backlash that was beginning to ensue because of the feet-dragging on the issue was strong, you haven't seen anything yet when equality reaches a fever pitch. The parabolic rise in support doesn't seem to be slowing down. If the Democratic Party continues to cower to these extreme red states at the expense of the rest of the country there will come a point when allies turn into enemies--this issue affects orders of magnitude more people than DADT did. It would be smart for Democrats to lead for a change before those levels of support reach 60%+ (and they will very soon) and find a growing anger turning into a revolt instead of continuing to pretend that the Times Square ball never said goodbye to 2004.

      Progress will not be impeded by being on the right side of history, it can only be impeded by people like you who cower at the thought of offending people who will never support equality while they are alive in order to help the Ben Nelsons of the world.

      "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

      by michael1104 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 08:45:24 AM PST

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      •  People like me? (0+ / 0-)

        Pragmatic enough to be aware of that great mass of easily swayed people out there who decide elections? Give me a break. Going down in flames waving a flag of "rightness" never accomplished anything. Don't ask, don't tell was an absolutely necessary, if horrible, intermediate step. Without it, we wouldn't be where we are now. It's called reality. NObody gives a crap about offending the idiots, only how the debate is perceived by swing voters, those who (however unfortunately) will decide elections. It's politics, not philosophy or ideology (or even right vs wrong). And polled % support can be pretty meaningless if it is soft enough to be vulnerable to smartly directed pressure from the right. Fear works.

        Without heroes we are all losers with nothing to aspire to.

        by qua on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 09:03:00 AM PST

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        •  You apparently don't get my point. (5+ / 0-)

          That great mass of easily swayed people has already been swayed toward the equality position. a majority nationwide support marriage equality. The idea that they would change their minds because of Democratic Party support of GOP fear-mongering (if you think it ever stopped you've been living under a rock) is absurd. That train has left the station, and the GOP, despite their best efforts to keep demozing gay people, is losing.

          I wasn't arguing about the merits of the DADT policy in 1993. I am arguing about the effort to repeal the law in 2011, which saw the same specious arguments about a supposed "backlash" or "people aren't ready" or "it will cost us the election" etc etc etc in order to excuse the feet dragging. It almost did not happen even thought there was stratospheric public support.

          Public opinion on the matter will not regress. It will keep progressing, and the GOP will continue to fear monger and demonize. And the Democratic school of cowering in the face of GOP attacks will certainly not get you any extra votes. That's been the go-to strategy of the party for the last 2 decades.

          "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

          by michael1104 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 09:20:31 AM PST

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        •  no offense intended, but yes, people like you. (0+ / 0-)

          the democratic party and its platform, more and more, is decided by the "pragmatic" wing of the party.

          it is the exact reason why i *hope* this language will be adopted into the platform but don't *believe* it will be adopted. it isn't "pragmatic". being bold and supporting an ideology isn't "pragmatic".

    •  exactly (0+ / 0-)

      i followed the link to page 52 of the dem platform, which i gather comes out of the pre-election convention.

      incorporating this into the party platform before this election would be nothing but disastrous.  talk about motivating the basest of the GOP base...

      My goal is to make the world safe for anarchy. - 4Freedom

      by Cedwyn on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 09:16:27 AM PST

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      •  Yeah, we wouldn't want to offend Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Scott Wooledge

        So let's make sure the Democratic Party refuses to make a statement that it believes gay people are entitled to the same marriage rights as straight people.  Because that might anger a bunch of people who are never going to vote Democratic anyway.

        By this logic, Johnson should never have gotten any of the civil rights legislation passed.  After all, as he correctly predicted, it cost the Democrats the south by pushing huge numbers of white voters into the arms of the Republicans.  Which, I suppose, one might characterize as "nothing but disastrous."  I rather suspect, however, that most African-Americans would say that doing the right thing was worth the sacrifice.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Mon Feb 27, 2012 at 10:23:49 AM PST

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