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View Diary: Breaking: Davy Jones, 1945-2012 (293 comments)

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  •  this isn't about davy jones - this is about (2+ / 0-)

    the group that he was a member of - was cast as.

    i am sorry you are taking this personally and chose to make a personal attack.  i hold you no animosity and am sorry you cannot see why clem and i both responded as we did to a phenomenon that was artificially created.  

    had you bothered to read my ENTIRE posts on this subject, you would find that i gave credit to the actor singer for his talent.

    what you are refusing to acknowledge is that some of us in my generation had real objections to how and why the GROUP was created.

    before i read your post, i was downstairs thinking again about why this was so upsetting at the time.

    the answer is that MY generation, as we graduated from high school, saw many classmates swept into the viet nam war due to the draft.  many many more of my generation went to college for the explicit reason of avoiding the draft (something which you have never had to face, btw).  turning 18 could be a life or death situation for my generation.  our music was a reflection of an awakening of that reality and of our part in the larger world.  we fought to gain the vote at 18 because "if you're old enough to die for this country, you should be able to vote!".

    our music was MORE than a sales tool - it was the expression of a generation facing death.  we SAW the results of war on the teevee - no banning of "upsetting pictures" as done by bush/cheney.  we had moved past the sitcom into the real world of seeing friends going off to war, fighting to KEEP from going off to war, seeing the unjust world of segregation, fighting for control over our own bodies instead of facing economic imprisonment through lack of choice.

    this is not about davey jones (who, by the way, was my age - talk about reminder of mortality), it is about the music of an era - and the loss of understanding of what we were about.

    the misuse of the term "dirty hippie" around here is a hot button for many of us who lived the times.  the lack of understanding of my generation is what bothers more than just one of us around here.

    EdriesShop coupon code for february is FEBRUARYBLOWOUT. More to come in the next few days! - Is GlowNZ back yet?

    by edrie on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 08:23:43 PM PST

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    •  I think you misread my comment here. eom (1+ / 0-)
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      "Space Available" is the largest retail chain in the nation.

      by Free Jazz at High Noon on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 08:29:42 PM PST

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      •  how ironic! i was just typing that (2+ / 0-)

        i misread YOUR comment...

        i thought you were responding to me - yet i understand very well where clem is coming from - each of us in the early sixties took away very strong emotional reactions to our "time" - it really was about those graduating high school and perhaps being dead within months.

        when the beatles hit the stage, they were so unabashedly REAL - and when the monkees were put together, they weren't "real" as a musical group because of how they started.

        that isn't saying that the individual singers didn't have a good sound - or that they weren't great people, as this thread has shown by the number of people who subsequently met them in RL - but what i read of clem's comments and share many of the same reactions says that he also felt that the creation of the group for a sitcom impacted how the group, itself, was judged.

        sorry for the misreading - and i hope you'll go back and read clem's comments again with a different eye.

        i also just realized while re-reading the thread that what i felt and many of my contemporaries felt was that the networks were making fun of us and not listening to what we were saying about the major issues facing us at that time.

        for me, that is the parallel with the occupy movement - a commercial enterprise developed to make money vs a real desire/need/demand to be heard on critical issues facing us today (as then).

        hope this helps...

        and don't mean to be a downer - not meaning to be disrespectful to davey jones - a talented actor and singer who was, imho, initially exploited but turned that manipulation of the group into real success as performers demanding to be their own musicians.  i don't think the producers expected that to happen.  but... i'm glad it did.

        EdriesShop coupon code for february is FEBRUARYBLOWOUT. More to come in the next few days! - Is GlowNZ back yet?

        by edrie on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 08:49:59 PM PST

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        •  Ah, edrie. No problem. (0+ / 0-)

          You know, I agree with a lot of what you say here. I like and appreciate their music, but the pre-fab aspect of their creation was controversial in its day and a sticking point for those who felt that they were a corporate con job - the mid60s equivalent of boy bands, perhaps. Rock fans attuned to the idea of rock acting as one level for social change (Dylan, Hendrix etc) must have felt that they were getting sold a fraudulent bill of goods.

          Being younger (a tad anyway) and perhaps having come of age in the era of corporate rock, the purity test vis a vis the Monkees never mattered much to me. They were a pop band - nothing more nor less. Underrated in some ways but I dont think that the band itself had any pretension other than being entertainers who sought credibility as artists. Mickey Dolenz went to the Monterey Pop Festival and was IRC snickered at.

          For my part, I took the punk and post-punk I sought out much more seriously than much of the chart pabulum of the 80s. The politically attuned punk bands opened my eyes and ears. But 80s and 90s kids were already a little cynical; by the time Nirvana's also-rans were being feted by the press, many of my cohorts were heading back to the clubs and to bands on small labels. We remembered what had happened in the 60s. We wanted music that was genuine, that spoke to real concerns. Not arena bands looking to get tunes placed in commercials.

          Nor for that matter am I really trying to bust Clem's chops. In fact, while this is a pet peeve of mine, I was thinking more of other sites where users obviously troll folks mourning the loss of public figure with ill-considered or malicious remarks. It was an off-hand remark along these lines.

          I see where Clem is coming from, as I am a big supporter of Occupy as well. I don't want to see it neutered via commodification, either.

          I hope any misunderstandings have been cleared up.

          Thank you for the convo, edrie!

          "Space Available" is the largest retail chain in the nation.

          by Free Jazz at High Noon on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 10:42:03 PM PST

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          •  i'm glad i misread your comment, too... (2+ / 0-)

            gave us a chance to talk further - and to realize you are in the bay area?

            and, from your moniker, you like jazz, yes?

            if i guessed right, then you have GOT to go hear kaye bohler!  she does jazz and blues and is amazing.  plays at sly mcfly's in monterey, sorentino's  (soquel), also around the bay area - san jose, cupertino, sunnyvale, etc - as well as sac area and l.a.

            she's a cross between etta james, ella fitzgerald, janis joplin and more - really an amazing singer!

            check out her website and listen to her songs there's a sample on her website - and it's addicting!  she writes her own music for the most part. maybe i'll see you at one of her gigs.  8^)

            oh, and of the difference in music from acoustic to heavy metal  - the styles and messages were so very different.

            we were much more sensitive and aware of the natural sounds in my day - and when it evolved to electronically generated, it just seemed to lose the soul... too mechanical and without the errors and differences from performance to performance that brought out the beauty.

            ah... remembering - and still listening on sirius - the 60s and 70s.  funny how those two decades are still so intensely popular - i really think it has to do with the individuals playing instead of the computer generated backgrounds that came later with keyboards that could "play" other instrument sounds and could "keep the beat" perfectly.

            thank heavens for the pbs concerts of rock'n'roll and visits down memory lane!

            if you're in the bay area - pm me - would love to get together!

            EdriesShop coupon code for february is FEBRUARYBLOWOUT. More to come in the next few days! - Is GlowNZ back yet?

            by edrie on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 11:07:18 PM PST

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            •  I will check out Kaye Bohler indeed! (0+ / 0-)

              Not in the Bay area now, but am happy to get in touch should I ever get there. :-)

              Did live in Santa Cruz for years and miss its vibrant music scene. Nothing like seeing a good artist or band live.

              Strangely enough, I like a fair amount of contemporary electronic music. Like any genre, there's inspired work and hackery present to varying degrees. Of course, one person's hackery... when I point out to my students that one of their favorite artists has been produced with autotune to keep the vocals in pitch, they tell me that its the song that they like - not the artist. A very pop sensibility, I suppose.

              "Space Available" is the largest retail chain in the nation.

              by Free Jazz at High Noon on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 11:29:24 PM PST

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              •  ah, the manipulation of voices through (0+ / 0-)


                that's why i like kaye so much - she is vocal, powerful and perfectly on pitch.  was classically trained and does opera as well as jazz and blues.  amazing voice!

                my current beef is with the theatre where NONE of the performers now can project to be heard from the stage - they all are miked - and it drives me nuts!

                when i was in the theatre (costume designer/makeup artist) my masters required we learn all aspects of the performing arts.  my minor was speech and voice production - i could be heard in an outdoor amphitheatre that sat 1100 people downwind in a hurricane from behind a 1 1/2 thick wooden fence as the "screamer" during one battle scene - i loved my "performance" between changing my dancer's costumes.

                in my day (here comes the old person rant...) there WERE no microphones - people could project their voices in speaking tones to the back of the house.  nowadays, so many singers i hear that are miked have thin, hollow voices that are so weak because they have NOT been trained to control and use their voices.


                well, if you're in l.a. area - then check out kaye's website - her tour dates down that way are online.  she is one of the real ones - true professional... she is getting airtime now on sirius' b.b.kings blueville.  king even said she was one of the up and coming ladies of the blues!  

                well, crashing soon - so i'll check back in later today - have a great nite!  enjoy some cool jazz or sweet blues!


                EdriesShop coupon code for february is FEBRUARYBLOWOUT. More to come in the next few days! - Is GlowNZ back yet?

                by edrie on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:14:09 AM PST

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