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View Diary: To Those Behind This Ad, Please Respect Our Beliefs and Traditions (136 comments)

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  •  So... (0+ / 0-)

    you were talking about Nazi's.  I'm guessing you omitted the term from your initial comment because you knew a comparison between any group that is not actually Nazis and actual Nazis is over the top and intrinsically offensive. So, who does that merit you being compared to?

    As for American Atheist intentionally selecting locations to cause maximum offense, that is an assumption that is based in your own prejudices.  I'd be curious, though, where in America you think they could post a billboard and not cause offense.

    •  Yeah, sure -- MY prejudices (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JDsg, Mets102

      They put a billboard in Hebrew in a heavily neighborhood rather than the Bronx and another in Arabic in a heavily Arab location rather than White Plains not because they were looking to insult and offend two very specific groups but for other reasons entirely.

      Brilliant.

      Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

      by wiscmass on Fri Mar 02, 2012 at 04:41:25 PM PST

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      •  Ugh -- typo (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mets102

        That is, "They put a billboard in Hebrew in a heavily Jewish neighborhood rather than the Bronx..."

        Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

        by wiscmass on Fri Mar 02, 2012 at 04:42:07 PM PST

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      •  According to AA president... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gsenski

        Dave Silverman

        “We are not trying to inflame anything,” he continued. “We are trying to advertise our existence to atheist in those communities. The objective is not to inflame but rather to advertise the atheist movement in the Muslim and Jewish community.”
        To me, that makes perfect sense.  It is of absolutely no benefit to American Atheists to shell out $15K a pop to do nothing more than be offensive.  I suppose, though, that's not as satisfying as assigning the most negative possible motive and then comparing them to Nazis.
        •  To you it makes perfect sense... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mets102

          ...that a person isn't trying to inflame because he says he isn't, even though there's no reason to do what he did other than to inflame.

          Shocking, that.

          Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

          by wiscmass on Fri Mar 02, 2012 at 06:38:48 PM PST

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        •  Also... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JDsg, Mets102

          ...I suppose it's very satisfying to you to keep repeating your initial lie that I called them Nazis. Again, I suggest remedial reading lessons for you.

          Hey Mets -- note the common thread with the other assholes we've been dealing with here the last couple days? It's ok to libel someone as long as you're defending behavior intended to fuck with Jews! Aren't you glad that's clear now?

          Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

          by wiscmass on Fri Mar 02, 2012 at 06:41:29 PM PST

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        •  There are no atheists in the Muslim community. (0+ / 0-)

          If you're a kafir you're not a Muslim, period.  I don't buy the "we're not trying to inflame" explanation whatsoever.

          Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

          by JDsg on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 01:39:12 AM PST

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          •  What an odd thing to say. (0+ / 0-)

            Of course there are atheists in the Muslim community.  Muslims are just like everybody else.  They are capable of questioning the faith they have been raised in and they are capable of rejecting it.  Some notable ex-Muslim atheists are Salman Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Maryam Namazie.

            •  Islam is a state of being... (0+ / 0-)

              ...not an ethnicity or a race or a group that, should you decide to leave, you continue to be affiliated with in some way.  Those whom you mentioned are not considered to be within the Muslim community.  Within the Muslim community are only Muslims, those who believe.  Atheists are not part of our community.

              Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

              by JDsg on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 07:03:21 AM PST

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              •  Ok... (0+ / 0-)

                but within a predominantly Muslim neighborhood there are likely individuals who were raised in the Muslim faith who have begun to question their faith and have perhaps rejected it outright.  Those individuals, like atheists coming from all faith backgrounds, may hide their beliefs for fear of being rejected by their community.  Outreach from groups like American Atheists lets those people know that they don't have to be alone.  There is a community outside of their religion.

                •  That type of situation is certainly a possibility. (0+ / 0-)

                  And I've come across a very tiny number of people (less than a handful) of both born Muslims and lapsed converts who fall into that category. In that regard the efforts by the atheists would be a sheer waste of money... But it's their money to waste. Any Muslim whose faith is wavering would know (or at least should know) that any outside help that atheists provide would be no help at all.

                  Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                  by JDsg on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:04:12 PM PST

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                  •  Why do you say it would be no help? n/t (0+ / 0-)

                    "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                    by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:52:38 PM PST

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                    •  First off, I wanted to rephrase that... (0+ / 0-)

                      ...last sentence.  I really should have said "that any outside help that non-Muslims provide would be no help at all."  Small comfort at that, I'm sure, but...

                      To answer your question, I had verses like 3:28 and 5:54 (and others that are similar) of the Qur'an in mind when I wrote my comment.

                      Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from God: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But God cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to God.  (3:28)

                      O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust. (5:54)

                      Now when these verses say don't take "friends" among these other groups of people, they're not referring to the normal, daily definition of the word friend ("one attached to another by affection or esteem, acquaintance"), but to the exact situation billybush wrote about in his comment above ("Outreach from groups like American Atheists lets those people know that they don't have to be alone."). Yes, these groups might be able to provide material or emotional support, but neither of that will be of any benefit on the Day of Judgment:  "for the final goal is to God."  None of these people have the best interests of Muslims at heart. I've seen too many examples over the years to know that this is a fact.  Best for any Muslims whose faith is wavering to return to the fold and gain the education they need so that their faith returns to its former strength than to waste their time with non-Muslims who are only concerned about their own self-interests.

                      Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                      by JDsg on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 01:46:36 AM PST

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                      •  So you're speaking from the point of view (0+ / 0-)

                        of a Muslim believer. But from the point of view of an atheist, who thinks that an atheist within a religious community would benefit from support of other atheists, the answer would be different.

                        "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                        by AaronInSanDiego on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 02:55:45 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yes, I am speaking as a Muslim... (0+ / 0-)

                          ...and I do realize that atheists and other non-Muslims would have a different perspective on the matter.  I myself used to be an atheist, but I ultimately realized that that position was incorrect.  As I mentioned earlier, non-Muslims might be able to offer material and emotional support to apostates but, from my perspective, that support will do them no good in the final analysis.  I guess we shall have to wait and see until the Day of Judgment who is correct, won't we?

                          Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                          by JDsg on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 11:29:48 PM PST

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                          •  I don't believe there will be a Day of Judgment. (0+ / 0-)

                            If I am right, then I will not have it confirmed after my death, since I do not believe in an afterlife. I had an upbringing in religious, though not Orthodox, Judaism, but my beliefs evolved into atheism.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 12:02:19 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

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