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View Diary: Obama just 'Vetoed' Indefinite Military Detention in NDAA (224 comments)

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  •  Like it was political suicide (13+ / 0-)

    ... when Republicans filibustered the defense authorization bill the year before over DADT repeal?  Less than two months later Republicans won a huge victory in the midterms, despite committing "political suicide."

    Seriously, these lame excuses are unattractively desperate.

    When Free Speech is outlawed, only outlaws will have Free Speech.

    by Dallasdoc on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:43:10 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You must be Doc Kevorkian (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dotcommodity, Radical def

      You really do want Obama to lose, don't you?
      You can't deny that the Republicans would have made tons of hay off of an Obama veto of NDAA.

      To compare what the Rs did over DADT is inaccurate at best.  In the eyes of their constituents, the Rs were taking a stand for heterosexuality and against queers.
      Obama would have been painted as "starving our brave troops so he could coddle terrorists."

      Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't have time to read DK, so contact him here: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 (Postcards, not letters! Please give your email address.) -- 202-456-1111 -- FAX: 202-456-2461

      by My Left Behind on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:56:15 PM PST

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      •  Boo! Scary Republicans! (9+ / 0-)

        After they'd done the same thing the year before over defending discrimination, you think that argument would have had any force?  Especially when another bill would have inevitably been passed without that language, leading to no unpaid or starving troops at all?

        As I said, unattractively desperate.

        When Free Speech is outlawed, only outlaws will have Free Speech.

        by Dallasdoc on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:14:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You really do need to read (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Radical def, dotcommodity

          Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't have time to read DK, so contact him here: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 (Postcards, not letters! Please give your email address.) -- 202-456-1111 -- FAX: 202-456-2461

          by My Left Behind on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:27:29 PM PST

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          •  I really don't (9+ / 0-)

            I saw Maher's show last night, and another cherry-picked recitation of the Laundry List will not persuade anybody not already persuaded.  Pissing off his base is one of the best ways for Obama to lose the election.  Critics have been saying that since almost day one, but his defenders keep using Republican criticism as an excuse for his every action that does so.

            Republicans criticize everything Obama does -- it's not like he can avoid it.  What he could have done is the right thing on NDAA -- vetoing it and demanding a clean defense authorization bill.  There is literally zero chance he wouldn't have gotten one.  But his veto threat was only over the narrow question of whether the bill would compel, rather than permit, certain activities.  That's far from the threat of a veto over military detention of US citizens.

            When Free Speech is outlawed, only outlaws will have Free Speech.

            by Dallasdoc on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:39:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  What makes you think you are part of the base? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              My Left Behind

              ;)

            •  You really do need to get it, doc (0+ / 0-)

              How can you say

              "There is literally zero chance he wouldn't have gotten (a 'clean' NDAA)."
              How he hell do you know that?
              You don't.
              And you're spinning this crap of "Obama's defenders using Republican criticism as an excuse..."
              That's bullshit.  The issue is not "Republican criticism," it's public (voter) perception and approval.
              And we know damned well how the public would have perceived an Obama veto of a defense authorization bill over detention of suspected terrorists, with the help of the corporate media.
              Are you self-medicating?  Or has your hatred of Obama made you this delusional?
              You really do want Obama to commit political suicide, don't you?
              As for "pissing off his base," one would hope that his base would have the sense to understand basic politics.
              http://www.politico.com/...
              And the progressive base is not big enough to carry a presidential election.  If Obama catered only to your wishes, he would be an ex-president.  And check me on this, doc, but former presidents don't get to sign much progressive legislation, or veto defense authorization bills.  
              Do they.

              Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't have time to read DK, so contact him here: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 (Postcards, not letters! Please give your email address.) -- 202-456-1111 -- FAX: 202-456-2461

              by My Left Behind on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 12:15:55 PM PST

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              •  How do I know that? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BradyB

                Because Congress has never defunded the military, and it never will.  

                You make confident pronouncements about hypotheticals yourself, while criticizing me for doing so.  How do you know how Obama would have been perceived if he'd vetoed NDAA pronouncing it unconstitutional, and demanded a clean defense authorization bill without those provisions?  You have no idea who would have won that argument, but I submit that Obama would have gained much support for courageous actions rather than meek submission as he's been used to.  That's at least as coherent a position as yours, even if you're not used to thinking of things that way.

                The progressive base may not carry an election itself, but if it's dispirited and unengaged that won't help the president, will it?  He knows that, which is why he's posturing as a populist for his campaign.  He knows progressives don't owe him their votes, so he's paying them lip service in a belated effort to earn support from his left wing.  The fact that the issues his left wing insist on are broadly popular will only help him, despite his probable insincerity.

                When Free Speech is outlawed, only outlaws will have Free Speech.

                by Dallasdoc on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 05:59:19 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  And also (0+ / 0-)

          this.

          Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't have time to read DK, so contact him here: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 (Postcards, not letters! Please give your email address.) -- 202-456-1111 -- FAX: 202-456-2461

          by My Left Behind on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:34:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Shame on you. (4+ / 0-)
        Doc Kevorkian

        We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

        by gooderservice on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:37:20 PM PST

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        •  Why? n/t (0+ / 0-)

          Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't have time to read DK, so contact him here: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 (Postcards, not letters! Please give your email address.) -- 202-456-1111 -- FAX: 202-456-2461

          by My Left Behind on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:47:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Because you don't know the members here, (3+ / 0-)

            and you don't know that DallasDoc is held in high regard.

            Sure, disagree with him all you want, but to call him Doc Kevorkian is disrespectful and really stupid and says everything about you and not him.

            We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

            by gooderservice on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 06:07:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, I see (0+ / 0-)

              I posted that Obama's vetoing of NDAA would have been political suicide, and that some here seem to be constantly rooting for that, and they call Obama a sellout coward when he doesn't pull the trigger.
              DallasDoc seems to be all too willing to assist in Obama's political demise, a la Dr. Kevorkian.
              Gee, thin-skinned much?

              Unfortunately, President Obama doesn't have time to read DK, so contact him here: The White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500 (Postcards, not letters! Please give your email address.) -- 202-456-1111 -- FAX: 202-456-2461

              by My Left Behind on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 06:22:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Why? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Otteray Scribe, Dallasdoc

            Because DallasDoc is held in high respect here.  You should know that.  And even if you didn't know that, shame on you for being disrespectful to someone with "doc" after their name unless and until you know who they are.

            Sure, disagree with him on all the issues you want to, but to refer to him as Doc Kevorkian says everything about you and nothing about him.

            We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

            by gooderservice on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 06:10:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  That's one phrase for it. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JesseCW, NM Ward Chair, Dallasdoc
      unattractively desperate
      I have quite a few others, but I'll save them for private conversations where there are no HRs.

      We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

      by gooderservice on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 05:36:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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