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View Diary: EPIC WIN! Occupy Wall Street OWNS Santorum in Oklahoma. OKLAHOMA! (127 comments)

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  •  Any evidence TP tactics "worked"? (0+ / 0-)

    Obama and Democratic Majorities were elected Despite everything the TP, and the Republicans could bring, including 30 years of full on propaganda blitz 24/7, on all channels of monopoly corporate fascist commercial mass media, ratcheted up to hysterical and draconian proportions for the elections.

    I think what "worked" far more for the Republicans in 2010 was the chorus of extremely negative attacks coming not only from the right, but also from the purported "Left", the latter of which served only to sow cynical defeatism and demoralization, and promulgate electoral boycott and splitting sentiments...which can only serve the interests of the Republicans.

    Go figure...

    What really "works" for the Republicans is blaming Obama and "teh Dems" for everything that the Right is doing, AS IF we should expect more optimal results while hostage to right wing majorities since day one of this administration, with all those Blue Dog ilk in there.

    Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

    by Radical def on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 10:22:36 AM PST

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    •  health care reform (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy

      look at what was actually passed.

    •  Wrong (3+ / 0-)

      There was no Tea Party in the 2006 and 2008 elections that brought Democratic majorities and Obama's presidency.

      The Tea Party was created to win the House for Republicans in 2010, and it did. Then it was used to interfere with Healthcare Reform in Congress beyond even the Tea Party members, and with all kinds of other government actions.

      It's blatantly obvious that the Tea Party's tactics worked.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 10:55:40 AM PST

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      •  Oh, kk, if you say so...it's all a blur, heh (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sockpuppet

        As to exactly when TP emerged, per se.

        However, I think you are blurring your own perspective by watching too much TV, maybe, in thinking TP had some major impact on legislation.

        The Republicans were doing what they do, backed up by right wing majorities in the House and Senate, from day one of this administration, with all those remnant Blue Dogs in there.

        Any shortcomings in legislation, policy, appointments, and even rhetoric on the part of the Prez and the Party were far more reflective of that realpolitik, than the consistent screaming by "Left" oppositionalists, that they are supposedly so utterly non-viable, with "no guts, spine, balls", even "betrayers", "sell outs", etc. etc.

        Such relentless unprincipled subjective hyperbolic rhetorical attacks certainly did not help, but materially hindered Democratic prospects going into 2010, leaving us with even worse plurality in the House and Senate.

        With "friends" and "comrades" like that, who needs enemies?

        Did the TP perhaps embolden the Republicans in office to be more explicit and draconian in their own actual, material, right wing majority rhetoric and actions, and also serve to increase their voter turnout in 2010?  

        No doubt they did.

        And I don't deny that initial Occupy tactics were somewhat effective in improving focus on issues...particularly because they were Not anything like TP tactics...and they Could, potentially, be a big help in bringing about actual material resolution of those issues.

        But I would point out that emulating TP, without Even trying to get more viable (from our perspective) candidates elected, seems like a pretty half-assed comparison, lol.

        And I'd reiterate my criticism regarding some aspects of Occupy practice thus far, which should be avoided going forward, if they really want to have a positive impact, rather than a negative one.

        Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

        by Radical def on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 11:37:51 AM PST

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        •  Fail. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueoasis
          With "friends" and "comrades" like that, who needs enemies?
          You sound just like all the messenger-shooters who blame 2010 on the liberals who all voted, instead of the Obama fans who all stayed home

          Ask your barista what her degree is in.

          by happymisanthropy on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 01:25:53 PM PST

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          •  Flawed "logic" (0+ / 0-)

            I said what I said, and you can't refute it.  

            Adhominem dismissal will not make it go away.

            And you can't have it both ways, on the one hand presuming to school the public about how non-viable the Prez and the Party supposedly are, and on the other hand disavowing any responsibility for your practice, in denying that it had any effect.

            If the Left had come out strong in support of Obama's efforts, inadequate as they were while subject to right wing majorities, since day one...and had attacked the Republicans and Blue Dogs for their obstructionism, instead of Obama, for getting less than optimal results under such circumstances...the effect and the results would have been different, in my analysis.

            Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

            by Radical def on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 02:37:09 PM PST

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            •  You don't remember "fucking retarded?" (0+ / 0-)

              The Left was fucking retarded for going after the Blue Dogs.   But you're so much smarter, you know they should have gone after the Blue Dogs instead.

              Ask your barista what her degree is in.

              by happymisanthropy on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 03:43:01 PM PST

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              •  You don't sound happy, in your misanthropy (0+ / 0-)

                Again, your "logic" fails, miserably, pathetically, cravenly...

                Personally, I never agreed with the dkos slogan about "more and better Democrats", and changed it to "more better Democrats", long before kos did, LOL.

                Fuck a whole bunch of Blue Dogs...

                But then, when it comes down to it, even the Blue Dogs vote with the Party over 90% of the time, which is "better", more or less, relatively speaking, than a guaranteed Republican "NO" vote, 99% of the time.

                As much as I tend to despise them, for the very notion of delineating themselves from the rest of the party with that moniker, I have to admit that when it really comes down to it, even a dog of a Democrat is better than a pig of a Republican, with rare and few exceptions, if any, lol.

                Everything is relative, especially in politics.

                And realpolitik is a bitch.

                What is it you don't get about right wing majorities, since day one, and the severe constraints that has put on the Prez, in regard to every policy decision, legislation, appointment, and even every word out of his mouth?

                The only good thing about 2010 is that it was mostly Blue Dogs who lost their seats, leaving the Progressive Caucus a majority in the Democratic caucus, heh.

                I think we've got good prospects for taking back many of those seats, with at least somewhat, relatively, more progressive Democrats, this time around.

                But then, you aren't interested in that, are you?  Even at this critical moment, Right Now, when it's necessary to bring forward the most viable candidates that we can, to improve the field going into November, it would seem you'd prefer to stand on the sidelines, hurling epithets.

                Nevermind, I'm somewhat familiar with your rhetorical tendencies, and you clearly aren't Even interested in reasoned discussion.

                At least it would seem we can agree, along with the whole world, that Rahm is an asshole...which is presumably why he's no longer working for the White House, lol.

                Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

                by Radical def on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 05:49:50 PM PST

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