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View Diary: Wrong Framing! It’s Not About Contraception (66 comments)

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  •  You really don't see the difference (0+ / 0-)

    between the pill and viagra? One allows more babies and one prevents them. It is only in the preventing of babies that 'bad' comes into play in the eyes of the Catholic hurch.

    Here's the thing Beans, Obama made the exception for religious loons to elect for the insurance companies to pay for any pill or procedure that violates their fragile little conscience.  Employers wouldn't have to pay for it, the insurance company can't pass that cost onto them either.  So, really, what is the problem here?
    Before exception:

    employees have access to free birth control because they on on the employer plan

    After exception:

    employees have access to free birth control because they on on the employer plan

    Nothing has changed.

    And of course no exception has yet been put into effect.
    And if an entity self-insures it acts as its own insurance company and is STILL paying for the pills.

    Some employers don't want to subsidize a behavior that they see as immoral.

    •  They are not subsidizing it, it is included in a (3+ / 0-)

      package of benefits which evidence indicates will reduce their costs.

      But the point that the Rush attack obscures is that the issue she was addressing was not about sex, or birth control, it was about insuring access to medicine prescribed for health problems like ovarian cysts. Medicine that a "religious" institution withholds because it can also be used for birth control even when that action causes the victim to live in pain and suffer life long complications.

      “when Democrats don’t vote, Democrats don’t win.” Alan Grayson

      by ahumbleopinion on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 09:43:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lostinamerica

        He tried (failed) to misdirect people into thinking that her testimony was about birth control, when it was mainly about the inequity that these exemptions create. One of her examples was how prohibiting use of the pill actually may have caused a woman to be sterile and prevented her from having children.

        But I think that, while attacking Limbaugh over his comments has the salutary effect of weakening him, it isn't the biggest problem I have with him. He is plugging for regressive policies that hurt the country and our people. We should use this as a launching point for a thoroughgoing examination of the other policies he broadcasts every day.

        That's one reason I think we should open up the discussion. We've found a weak point. Let's exploit it for all it's worth!

    •  But who are you to... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Liberal Thinking, lostinamerica

      think you have a say in who wants babies and who doesn't?  So my right to planning when I have a baby, rather than just letting nature takes its course is not only your business, but the business of my boss and employer?  

      Seriously, you have some problems, what I want to do with my body is only my business.  I'm guessing you're either not married or with a women as religiously whacked out as you are.

      I seriously don't know if you intentionally miss the point, of if you've been so brainwashed you think reality is different than it actually is but...

      Before the exception:
      All employers had to directly provide free access to birth control

      After the exception:
      Employers who throw hissy fits can have their insurance company cover contraceptives directly and not pass any cost on to their fragile little consciences.  I know, if anyone in the world sins or goes against their religion, it crumbles everything they hold dear.

      Why don't you go troll on Faux News were you'll be in your element full of looney toons and liars.

      •  i don't want a say (0+ / 0-)
        So my right to planning when I have a baby, rather than just letting nature takes its course is not only your business, but the business of my boss and employer?  
        It becomes that when you ask them to buy you contraceptives. If you buy them yourself with your own money, then no one else has a say. The business just wants to be able to not be a party to that choice.
        Seriously, you have some problems, what I want to do with my body is only my business.
        Agreed go contecept till the cows come home. But what your employer want to do with their money is THEIR choice. You ant that choice taken away from them.
        •  You Are Buying Them Yourself (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SuzieQ4624, bronte17, lostinamerica

          The point is that you are buying them yourself when you get them through the plan. The plan is compensation. Once you get the compensation, it's your money.

          That is, after all, the point you seem to be avoiding.

          •  But the employer (0+ / 0-)

            does not wish to provide that compensation. And in that compensation there is money that goes from the employer and never passes through the hands of the employee that buy birth control.

            That is different than taking money that you have earned, that is now your property and buying them.

            The employer wants the freedom to choose the sort of compensation it offers. You want to take that choice away from them. So much for Pro-Choice.

            •  You're splitting hairs and you know it. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lostinamerica

              I think you know you have no case here and you're just desperately clinging to your antiquated and outrageous beliefs.  It was entertaining at first, now it just seems pathetic and out of place.

            •  Also, we've re-named the Pro-Choice mvmt... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Liberal Thinking, lostinamerica

              it's been offically crowned the Anti-Choice movement, because in the end, you really just want to remove all choices from a women's life.  Religious extremists and anti-choicers (I know, redundant) want women to live exactly according to THEIR beliefs.  Forget what a women wants from her life, they just need her to either procreate or be celibate.

              That's fine if that's how the extremist, anti-choicers want to live their lives, but imposing that belief system on everyone, especially people that do not follow your antiquated brand of religion is a violation of that woman's right to religious freedom.  Read - everyone has a right to religious freedom, NOT everyone has a right to conform to your present ideas that remove all choice from a woman's life.

        •  Not to mention, it's not just my boss handing... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Liberal Thinking, moiv, lostinamerica

          me a pack of birth control pills every month.  I go to the pharmacy just like for every other medication I get.

          The insurance company covers it.  It's not like my boss sits there and reviews every medication I've been prescribed.

          But seriously, lets me honest here, this isn't about money or choice, it's about control.  It's about the small minded, needing to control women and digging their heels in the sand that we want rights.  Believe it or not, we're made for more than being subservient, making sandwiches and producing offspring.  

          Birth control is a right.  I have a right to plan my family.  Insurance companies pay for all my other medications, why is this one so different?  I pay for my health insurance, why should I be told by some hypocritical religious nut what my health insurance company should cover?

          •  control? (0+ / 0-)

            No one is making you contracept. No one is preventing your from contracepting. No one is controlling you.

            The only ones being controlled here is them employer who is being forced to do something that he does not wish to do. Something that he believes to be immoral.

            The insurance company covers it.  
            They do if the company pays to have it be park of the package.
            Birth control is a right.
            But Birth Control that someone pays for for me is not. I also have a right to bear arms. No one is obligated to buy me a 12 gauge and ammo.

            I want a gun, i just go buy it.

            •  It is atttempting to be prevented... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lostinamerica, Liberal Thinking

              by making the cost higher, many people cannot afford $60 a month for birth control, which is how much it is out of pocket, with no insurance.  

              Employers can cry my a fucking river, if they don't like having to provide health insurance, they should go out of business.

              I'm so sick of having this conversation with a brick wall.  If no one is forcing you to take contraception, please shut up, this has nothing to do with you.  Your opinion is not valid in this context.  My personal rights are more important to me than some small business owner who think's he's the second coming of Jesus and needs to tell women how to have babies.  Please get over it and get over yourself.  You're not a one person crusade, you're view point is skewed to the point, where you have invalidated yourself.

            •  No One Else Is Paying For It (0+ / 0-)

              This is part of a package that's earned. It's paid for by the employee, who earns the package. The company isn't "paying for it". They are giving the employee that package as compensation. The employee is earning it, and the employee is paying for everything that's in it.

              The idea that companies pay for these things is just erroneous. Without the workers working for it, there wouldn't be any money to pay for it.

              It's like the concept that employers create jobs. Employers do not create jobs. Workers create jobs. Until the worker agrees to work there isn't any job, just a job opening, a job opportunity, an empty position. When the worker agrees to work, that creates the job. Workers are job creators.

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