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View Diary: Sen. Chuck Schumer wants to have Bush tax cut fight before election (82 comments)

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  •  The Buffet Rule, which most people support (15+ / 0-)

    (and which that link refers to) is not the same thing as repealing the Bush Tax Cuts on families over $250,000.

    Most people will agree that zillionaires should pay an effective tax rate around 30%.  Many two-income families above $250,000 already pay an effective tax rate of 26 - 28% because of the Alternative Minimum Tax, even before any talk of raising taxes on them.  

    I agree with Schumer -- the country needs a discussion of (1) who is "the rich," (2) what is a "fair" effective tax rate, and (3) realistic expectations of how much increasing taxes on "the rich" (depending on how that is defined) is going to mean in additional revenue.

    •  This discussion is long overdue. (9+ / 0-)

      1500 households earning over $1,000,000 in 2009 paid NO income tax.  Zero, zip, nada.  They are probably also paid no payroll taxes.

      We MUST demand Romney's returns for the last several years.  It is likely he had a year where he paid no income tax - despite millions in income - legally.  

      United States citizens deserve to know how their tax code is really structured and Romney's returns would be extremely educational and information.  He wants to be in public service, well it would be a public service for him to show the average American how the rich are taxed in this country.

      The one year does not cut it.  We need to see the 2009 returns.

      Newt Gingrich: Believes marriage is between one man and a series of ever younger women. Wife #1 born ~ 1936, divorced when in her mid-40s...Wife #2 born ~1947, divorced when in her mid-40s...Wife #3 born ~1966.

      by trillian on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 01:14:44 PM PST

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      •  Romney thinks his tax returns issue is (3+ / 0-)

        is over...not by a long shot. I don't keep records, but I don't know of any nominee for president who has made public only a single yr of tax returns..What is Romney hiding...

        We MUST demand Romney's returns for the last several years

        "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, 1935 --Talk of foresight--

        by tuma on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 02:23:37 PM PST

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    •  Most millionaires pay about 29% (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rat racer, VClib

      Yes, there are some like Buffet and Romney who only pay the 15% rates.. but the average effective rate of persons earning over $1 million is 29%.

      I agree with you (and Schumer) we need a discussion of what "fair" means. But, Schumer may be opening a hornet's nest.  If the GOP says let's have that discussion and re-structure the entire tax code, Obama's automatic tax increase in his 2013 budget (the sunsetting of ALL Bush tax cuts on Jan 1, 2012) likely goes away.. and so does the projections (phony or otherwise) of "savings" and "deficit decreases" in following years.

      •  Could I have a link, please? (4+ / 0-)

        Please support your statement, that "most millionaires pay about 29%".

        •  Here ya go.. (0+ / 0-)

          From HuffPo

          This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.
          If I get time, I will try to find one of the recent articles that links back to IRS tables.
          •  What does that even mean? Income taxes (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            One Opinion, tuma

            and payroll taxes?

            How many households make a million in salary rather than on investments?

            •  I think he means (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fisheye

              both... there are a lot of very wealthy medical and legal professionals, for example, who may make $500K or more in salary, and also have another $500K in investment income, taxed at 15%.  It is possible that someone making $1 million per year would have significant payroll tax withheld.

              “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

              by ivorybill on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 01:53:37 PM PST

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            •  Income tax is what wage slaves pay. (0+ / 0-)

              Payroll tax is not a real tax, it is Social Security retirement/pension benefit payments.

              Millionaires pay a small tax (Capital Gains) on the money they $kim from the system in their positions as bankers, speculators and other Masters of the Universe; but only on the $kim that they are unable to hide offshore. They earn nothing.

              That Giant Sucking Sound Is Wall Street Billionaires Drinking Your Blood.

              by olo on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 04:35:28 PM PST

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          •  Your link does not support your (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            One Opinion, aliasalias

            assertion; nowhere in it does it say that "most millionaires pay 29%." In fact, the closest thing to quantifying the whole article comes at the end, where we find this gem (emphasis mine):

            Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was pressed at a White House briefing on the number of millionaires who pay taxes at a lower rate than middle-income families. He demurred, saying that people who make most of their money in wages pay taxes at a higher rate, while those who get most of their income from investments pay at lower rates.
            •  I should have said "average".. (0+ / 0-)

              As many as 25% of folks in that income class pay very little in taxes.  But that means the rest are paying even more than 29%.

              This is why we need tax reform.  No deductions, no loopholes.  

              •  Face it, if this article is the basis for (0+ / 0-)

                your statements, you will want to rethink. The author does a terrible job of giving us apples to apples comparisons for the numbers he throws around.
                Here's a good one:

                In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.
                The first sentence speaks to those who pay no income tax. The second? Who knows how much tax they pay, because he hasn't done his homework. Just because they pay the majority of the federal government's income, it does not mean they are individually paying out anything close to his/your 29% figure.
          •  "Average" is not "most" (0+ / 0-)

            and other numerical inaccuracies. Also, lumping ALL taxes (like property taxes for all we know) into a pot when the discussion is STRICTLY about  sunsetting a law that cuts income tax only is, well, we like to say "disingenuous" to the liars in my family.

            I pay more federal income taxes than General Electric, Boeing, DuPont, Wells Fargo, and Verizon all put together.

            by Daddy Love on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 02:25:06 PM PST

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            •  You are right.. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ZedMont, bryduck, olo, BobBlueMass

              I should have read that more carefully.  I thought when I read that some weeks ago it was 29% in federal income tax, so I didn't read the quote I pulled very carefully.

              •  You get a gold star for intellectual integrity (0+ / 0-)

                What'd the devil give you for your soul, Tommy? He taught me to play this here guitar REAL good. Oh son, for that you traded your everlastin' soul? Well, I wuddn' usin' it.

                by ZedMont on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 02:32:57 PM PST

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