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View Diary: Can you swallow some ideas? A new synthesis of Lakoff's work and that of others. (27 comments)

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  •  for the slow learners in the class (2+ / 0-)
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    AoT, don mikulecky

    exactly how does Lakoff's work provide a solution or bridge from duality of separating machine from mind or soul and metaphorical thinking?  How does it save us from the devil's bargain between Bacon and the Church?

    I'll re-read your article again to see what I missed, but I am not sure I will ever grasp it.

    I do agree that organisms are not the equivalent of machines, can't be described in purely mechanistic terms.  I do believe that our minds function as part of the biological system, not independent of it.  I certainly puzzle over the alive/not alive conundrum of what is it about a person that makes us alive and conscious, thinking, and then suddenly not.  It seems that many of the answers are being found in studying disease states where parts of the brain no longer function normally.  But it doesn't seem to answer the ultimate causality of why is the same flesh alive, and then dead.  What captures the energy that animates us and what releases it?

    And to get back to the systems approach, I am still curious about what do we need to change to create a system where we do not deny ourselves and our place in the world by reducing us to machine and God, that allows us to have a cooperative, with each other and with nature, structure that is sustainable.

    •  You are confusing sources (1+ / 0-)
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      Larsstephens

      Lakoff is not Rosen.

      Rosen posed Schroedinger's ill posed question "What is Life?" in a well posed, answerable form.  He asked "How are machines and Organism different"  By so doing he partitioned the universe of discourse into two parts that are disjoint.  Machines and organisms differ due to their causal entailment.  Organisms are closed causally while machines can never be.
       Later, Lakoff supplied us with.....

      The embodied mind idea that deconstructs Cartesian Dualism

      The role of unconscious thought and the role of "framing" in that

      The importance of metaphor in our thinking process

      The verification of Rosen's thoughts about causality.

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 05:07:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I need to answer your other questions: (1+ / 0-)
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      Larsstephens
      But it doesn't seem to answer the ultimate causality of why is the same flesh alive, and then dead.  What captures the energy that animates us and what releases it?
       The recent books I have reviewed here attempt to give partial answers to this question.  Check my diary list for the Deacon and the Juarrero books.  They fall well short of the mark but no one has done better to my knowledge.
      And to get back to the systems approach, I am still curious about what do we need to change to create a system where we do not deny ourselves and our place in the world by reducing us to machine and God, that allows us to have a cooperative, with each other and with nature, structure that is sustainable.
       We can go a bit further with this one.  Machines and complex systems differ importantly with respect to this and there is the big rub!  Machines can be taken apart and put back together.  They like organisms need repair and maintainence but it comes from outside.  Organisms and other self organizing self sustaining systems do it from within and can not be reverse engineered.  Hence we do not know how to make them.

      People are out there trying to make systems they believe might be sustainable.  They know some of the requirements.  We can only hope that as the stuff that is coming happens some of them will actually work and survive.

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Mon Mar 05, 2012 at 05:35:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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