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View Diary: Time Magazine's cover girl this week... (371 comments)

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  •  Why do her looks merit a mention? (3.25)
    Not to pick on you, Jillian, because you are far, far, far from alone . . . but why is any woman who is a public figure, whether on the right or on the left, continually subjected to comments about her appearance?  When is the last time you read a story about Frist, or DeLay, or Kennedy, or any other MAN, for that matter, in which their physical attributes were discussed?  I find it particularly disappointing when other women contribute to this phenomenon.  Again, Jillian, this isn't a personal attack on you--your post was simply the most recent example of something I have been meaning to comment about for a while.
    •  I did mention earlier on (none)
      that Delay looks like he had a cheekbone implant -- or perhaps a bad botox job.  As men become more at ease with the plastic surgery phenom -- I believe we will hear the same for men.  But yes - Lawyertocapitalists- I agree.  P.S.  I hope you are nice to the working class secretaries in your office.  I was one for 45 years and you guys were not always nice to us, especially as there are more and more lawyers and less and less clients - the pressure is really bad and we often took the brunt.  

      It sure the hell is heavy, father -- it's my grandchildren's share of the birth tax

      by xanthe on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 11:27:36 AM PDT

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      •  xanthe (none)
        I am sorry you had that experience in your law office!  Yes, I am extremely nice to the staff in our office.  In fact, everyone is so nice to the staff in our office that a friend of mine has said he wishes HE could work in a law office, because when performance issues arise, the staff seem to be totally bullet-proof, when a lawyer would be instantly fired.  I don't mean that in an unkind way (lawyers make their share of mistakes as well), just as an example of the fact that our staff are treated better, not worse, than the others in the office!
    •  The perfect blonde (4.00)
      Tall, slender and well dressed.  And completely lacking substance.  She's like a wingnut's fantasy come true!

      I was thinking earlier today whether she would have less impact if she was heavyset black woman.  I decided the answer was yes.  Unfortunately.

    •  You're not seeing the whole picture (4.00)
      I have been blasted for mentioning the fact that women are constantly bashed for their appearence on discussions here at KOS, but women's looks are picked on in regards to sexually appealing, fashionable, etc.

      I did not address her clothing, makeup, shoes, nailpolish, beauty (or lack thereof) etc. which is the NORM for women to be judged upon.

      I addressed HER PHYSICAL CONDITION.

      If an amaciated man were pictured, I would still question his appearence. I would still wonder if he was eating.

      Now...just looking at her physical condition, do you think this might be a person who is suffering from an affliction that kills young girls and women daily?

      Photo 1

      Phot 2

      and then of course the Time cover.

      What I see this cover is doing is GLORYIFING Starvation Looks for Women in order to be powerful. It is GLORYFING not only the cult of Coulter, but the cult of Anorexia.

      Our media shows all sorts of sizes and AGES of powerful men...Ted Kennedy, for a good example. But for powerful women, the media seems to only highlight skinny, "attractive" women.

      "Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other." - JFK

      by jillian on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 12:10:19 PM PDT

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      •  She's slender (none)
        but she hardly looks unhealthy (esp. in comparison to other NYC females), much less anoerexic. These types of comments--that people are worried that she is fueling eating disorder issues--are just more cover for people to comment on her apperence. Anoerexia is a very complicated illness and it's been around since before there was even such a thing as media. There's a lot more to it than skinny models and actresses.
        •  Actually, (none)
          she may look worse in person than she does in her media appearances. Randi Rhodes has mentioned seeing her in NYC, and "everyone who knows her just wants to feed her", indicating that those around her think there may be a problem. (Randi didn't sound malicious about it, either, so it's more than just liberal spite I think.)

          "It's an unnerving thought that we may be the living universe's supreme achievement and its worst nightmare simultaneously." -- Bill Bryson

          by Cali Scribe on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 01:27:12 PM PDT

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        •  if you don't think she looks unhealthy (none)
          in these photos, that only illustrates how bad off we as a community are about women's weight.  

          Look at her arms and legs!  She looks incredibly weak and brittle.  She has no muscle mass. If that looks okay to you, then we have real problems.  

           

      •  Jillian (none)
        I totally agree with your last point--that the media highlights attractive women.  And I agree that this is unfair and seriously diminishes the power of women.

        But I think your comment that she "might be a person who is suffering . . . " is very telling.  The fact is, you and I don't have any idea whether Ann Coulter has an eating disorder.  She may be blessed with good genes, or she may eat healthfully and work out fanatically in between episodes of spreading conservative propaganda, viciously attacking others and missing the trial of the pie-throwers in Arizona, about which she is so concerned.  I think it is dangerous to speculate about such things with no real evidence to support your speculation (as is pointed out in the comment above mine).

        Finally, either you missed my point or you don't care about it.  Either is fine.  However, I think you are awfully fast with the 1 rating.  I don't care enough about it to rate your posts with 1's, but the next person on whom you drop an unwarranted 1 may not feel the same way.

        •  No... (none)
          I got your point.

          "Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other." - JFK

          by jillian on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 01:09:14 PM PDT

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        •  It's very telling that you think (none)
          that the women highlighted by the media are attractive and that you think she has "good genes". It would appear that you subscribe to the cult of "body fascism" -- that only women who don't have the average body types of women but have the body types of teenage boys are attractive and intelligent. This  modern pressure on women to take up a minimum amount of space is wreaking havoc on girls' and women's health. It started in the 60s and has just gotten worse and worse.

          Women who have curves are treated as bimbos or as fat and unattractive. Marilyn Monroe would just not cut it today.

          I don't care if Ann is thin because she is anorexic, bulemic, a drug addict, hyperthyroid, or just she has "good genes" <snark>. Someone that far left on the body bell curve should not be held up as the body "ideal".

          "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

          by Glinda on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 04:13:13 PM PDT

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          •  Glinda (none)
            Did you read the entire thread above?  I am concerned that you either read my post out of context or that I must not have made myself very clear (always a possibility).

            First, the only reason I mentioned any possible alternative "causes" for Coulter's thinness was to point out that it is not fair to assume she has an eating disorder merely because she is thin.  I did not say that I know definitively that Coulter has good genes--I only mentioned that is possible, along with the possibility that she works out like a fiend and eats healthfully, or any number of other possibilites I did not ennumerate.  Like it or not, there are some women who are thin for these and other reasons and I don't think one should presume and accuse an eating disorder without any evidence whatsoever to support it other than "she's thin."

            Second, I am all-too-keenly aware of how people view women who are not thin and "attractive" within the conventional view of such things.  I am very much aware of the effect that the pressure regarding "curves" has on a woman's self esteem, dating prospects, work success and myriad other areas of one's life.  I know this from personal experience, as an intelligent woman with curves.  So don't point your self-righteous finger at me as if I am the person perpetuating the myth.

            In fact (and here was the point I intended to make), my original post merely said I don't see why we talk about women's bodies at all in the context of attacking their political views.  Perhaps I missed the story, but I do not know of Ann Coulter holding herself out as the physical ideal for us and saying, "Believe me, I'm thin!"--rather, it was the poster above who chose to bring up Coulter's thinness as a personal attack, coupled with a bitchy remark about her having an eating disorder (based on pure speculation).  I am disgusted that those kinds of attacks based on one's physicality or appearance are only made on women, not men.  To me the sin is compounded when it is a woman making such an attack.

            Perhaps I have read a mean-spirited tone into your comment when one was not intended.  If so, I'm sorry.  But I feel as if I have had a sharp finger poked squarely into my chest, and unfairly so.

            •  I read your post (none)
              You aren't getting it: Just think about your use of the "good genes" meme and what that says about how warped women's view of attractive bodies are these days.

              As I stated in my previous comment, I don't care how she stays thin, the woman is emaciated ... positively skeletal. That is not attractive. I too live in New York and have seen hundreds of bodies of women whose body type is naturally "model thin". They look natural and healthy. Ann looks sickly. And I've seen that bodytype as well here and far too often. It's pure body distortion.  

              That aside, Coulter asks for references to be made to her looks ... in spades. She has attacked liberal and Democratic women for their looks many, many times. Here's just a sampling: From her July 26th, 2004 column about the Democratic National Convention:

              My pretty-girl allies stick out like a sore thumb amongst the corn-fed, no make-up, natural fiber, no-bra needing, sandal-wearing, hirsute, somewhat fragrant hippie-chick pie wagons they call "women" at the Democratic National Convention.

              One more thing: I'd take this discussion much more seriously if I had seen anyone who has come to Ann's defense on her body today also calling the following Kossacks on their pot shots at women's looks:

              Newsie's C&J got 39 '4s' for a post containing this snippet with nary a comment:

              Cheers to good looking princes! (uber snark alert!) Thanks to Diana, these two weren't infected by the Camilla gene pool.
              Or this pathetic commentary on Terri Schiavo:
              Another thing - have you seen pictures of her "before?" She was an attractive woman! Wouldn't she'd be horrified to know that she's all over the tv looking the way she does now?

              Yes, she was very attractive when she was drinking nothing but iced tea causing that disasterous potassium deficiency that resulting in irreversible brain damage. And wasn't Diana bulemic? But that's okay because she was pretty and thin.

              Neither Camilla Parker Bowles nor Terri Schiavo did anything to deserve remarks about their looks. But their looks are not "ideal".

              Ann on the otherhand deserves what she gets.

              "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

              by Glinda on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 10:04:33 PM PDT

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              •  I think we are generally saying the same thing. (none)
                Although I did not see those 2 posts you quote before, I agree they are wrong.  I did tell Jillian at the beginning of this thread that I am tired of all comments about women's physicality, not just any pertaining to Ann Coulter, and that I had seen many other instances of such comments, not just hers.  

                And I get what you are saying about Ann bringing this on herself, but I personally don't think anything she has said merits lobbing the ball back at her.  I view that as stooping to her level.  Whether she looks skeletal or not, I don't think it is our business to comment on her appearance, any more than it would be our business if she had subjected herself to a plastic surgery that went awry, leaving her with only half a nose.

      •  Yes, yes, and yes! (none)
        I'd love to be the "Coulter of the Left" just once and go on Fox opposite "her grossness" and accuse her of being to blame for Terri Schiavo going into a a coma in the first place: starving and purging herself to look like a fashion skeleton because she thinks that's the way a woman should look to be attractive.

        Yeah ... way out of line. But it would be fun to demonize her for once.

        "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

        by Glinda on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 03:46:00 PM PDT

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        •  I wish I had seen this before responding (none)
          to your other comment.  What would you have Ann Coulter do--gain weight to make everyone else feel better or serve as a better "role model"?  As I said above, we have no idea why she is as thin as she is.  She certainly isn't the only one who is so thin.  But it seems that you blame her merely because she is.  With so many other things to blame her for, why does it have to be about her body?  I don't hear anyone calling Bill Frist out for his extreme thinness.
          •  No Ann can stay as lovely as she is! (none)
            I don't blame her for her body. I blame her for her rhetoric. Bill Frist has said many stupid things but I've never heard him make comments about his opponent's bodies.

            Her vitriol has included attacks on both individual women's bodies (Elizabeth Edwards, for yet another example) and those of all Democratic and liberal women in general. (See the link in my other comment.) It is part of her shtick. I'm just lobbing the ball back at her.

            Regardless, Ann just looks like she's ill. Not a healthy look at all. That some think this is a normal look for a healthy woman in her 40s is a sad comment on this culture.

            "You don't lead by pointing and telling people some place to go. You lead by going to that place and making a case." - Ken Kesey

            by Glinda on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 11:14:37 PM PDT

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    •  It isn't nice to poke fun (none)
      at a person's appearance. You're right.

      There are just some public people who so outwardly reflect their interior beauty or ugliness that you'd be blind to pretend otherwise.

      Consider also: Robert Novak, George W. Bush,Tim Russert, Kate O'Beirne to name just a few.

      Think of Dorian Gray's picture in the attic, growing heavy-lidded, slit-eyed,warty-faced, dissipated and corrupt, mirroring the rotten soul of the youthful, handsome, fresh-faced man everyone thought they knew.

      The way you live ultimately catches up to you; your physical appearance tells on you. I bet if you left out the name of someone you're talking about, and just described them, no one would have any trouble recognizing them.

      Still, it isn't nice.

    •  Maybe because she flaunts her looks (none)
      and maybe that's all she's got.

      To thine own self be true - W.S.

      by Agathena on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 01:02:25 PM PDT

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    •  I also hate it (none)
      when looks are a focus of a discussion of a woman in the public eye.  The comments on Hillary, Madeleine Albright, Donna Shalala, etc. drove me crazy.

      Coulter, however, makes her living from her looks.  In her USA Today column about the Democratic convention that got cancelled, she mentions her "pretty girl allies" and denigrates the looks of Democratic-leaning women.

      What color are your pajamas?

      by Unstable Isotope on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 04:36:15 PM PDT

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      •  Do you happen to have a link to that story, (none)
        Isotope?  I was not aware of her making a point about her own looks, so I'm interested in reading the article you reference.  Thanks!
        •  Here is a story (none)
          Here is the story about her being dropped from USA Today.

          www.cbsnews.com :

          "My pretty-girl allies stick out like a sore thumb amongst the corn-fed, no make-up, natural fiber, no-bra needing, sandal-wearing, hirsute, somewhat fragrant hippie-chick pie wagons they call 'women' at the Democratic National Convention."

          Here is a link to the column.  Link

          What color are your pajamas?

          by Unstable Isotope on Sun Apr 17, 2005 at 04:51:24 PM PDT

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