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View Diary: Do conservatives really think Obama is Muslim, or are they just dicks? (264 comments)

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  •  Of course not. (4+ / 0-)

    But how is this going to help that?  

    What will help them overcome prejudices is better education.  What will help them overcome prejudices is the take down of the propaganda machine that feeds their prejudices.  What will help them overcome their prejudices is breaking the cycle of poverty.

    I know that our side calling their side a bunch of stupid, ignorant, hateful, assholes isn't going to help them overcome their prejudies.

    Attacking the powerless is something the right does.  

    I would like to think we are better than that.

    Attack Rush, or Romney or Santorum or Wall Street etc all you want.  I'm right there with you.  Attack the poor and powerless...not me.

    Fascism: The conservative notion that killing people makes them work harder

    by madtowntj on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 01:00:02 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with a number of your points. (12+ / 0-)

      But I don't agree with your description of these folks as "the powerless."

      Racial prejudice has been exposed as a destructive force in this society for decades. The fact that some people choose to continue to believe and promote the worst kinds of prejudice is indeed ignorant and hateful.

      •  I know that and you know that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quaoar, Bob Johnson

        but the demographics for a large majority of the people are pretty bad and getting worse.  The grow up in a culture of bigotry , hate, and poverty.

        They've been called names over and over.  It doesn't change a thing.

        How do we break the cycle?  

        I don't defend the people in this survery who have the means to know better.  They are part of the problem.

        But what about the people who are poor who have horrible educations and are surrounded, but nothing but bigotry.  They are powerless.  The lack economic freedom and education.  

        This type of argument is the same argument the right uses against social safety nets.  You don't deserve the social safety nets because you are inferior.

        Hate is a learned behavior.  How do we fix it?

        Fascism: The conservative notion that killing people makes them work harder

        by madtowntj on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 01:12:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In the short run, we can't fix it. (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrbeen38, doroma, MrJersey, a2nite, MT Spaces

          And there is a real question of how we can even fix it in the long run, given the group's continued election of retrograde thinkers.

          That said, I think we must call out this bigotry and hatred for no other reason than to force these people back under their rocks.

          As I note in another comment in this thread, the Tea Party opened the Pandora's Box of prejudice again, making it "safe" to expound on topics which had been forced out of mainstream conversation by societal pressure.

          Obama's election and the reaction it engendered brought all of this ugliness back to the surface. We should do everything in our power to force this vile activity back into the shadows where it belongs in a civil society.

          •  I agree with you more than you think (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            quaoar, Bob Johnson

            But, I think there is a difference between shining a light on bigotry and labeling people as stupid, ignorant, assholes.  

            We have to turn this thing around and not just force it underground.  This is a democracy.  In theory this country is run of, for, and by the people.  

            If a significant portion of the people are always going to hold these beliefs then I wonder how we can have a democracy.

            It is not an easy problem to solve and it is probably generational, but it needs to be solved, not just forced underground.

            Fascism: The conservative notion that killing people makes them work harder

            by madtowntj on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 01:30:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  It's not quite that simple (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Johnson, LynChi, mmacdDE

        Poor whites in the South have been kept in line politically for decades by being made to fear that blacks were out to take their jobs and their women.

        It's as much a class issue as a racial one. Poor whites are placated by the business elite that runs the South politically by being made to feel superior to blacks. If you grow up poor and white in the South you know your situation is crap, but you figure at least you're better off than the black folks who live on the other side of town.

        One day they may wake up and realize they have more in common with African-Americans than they do with the folks at the country club.

        That day isn't here yet. Making fun of them -- and calling them mouth breathers as someone else on this diary did -- won't make that day come any sooner.

        •  What will make that day come sooner? (7+ / 0-)
          •  Nothing we're willing to do in America (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MrJersey, a2nite

            Reconstruction didn't even work when we tried it twice.

            Ok, so I read the polls.

            by andgarden on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 01:29:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dr. King had that answer (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bob Johnson, Charles Hall

            He knew -- as Gandhi knew before that in campaigns in South Africa and India -- that victories in court would be hollow and that nothing would truly change unless the civil rights movement appealed to the hearts and minds of the oppressors.

            Segregation in the South collapsed not just because of federal court decisions but because enough Southern whites felt enough shame at seeing peaceful demonstrators beaten and jailed and subjected to dogs and fire hoses.

            Dr, King always said that the worst enemy of the civil rights movement was not racists like Bull Connor but the silence of white Southerners of good conscience.

            His goal was to make it impossible for those people of good conscience to remain silent. He didn't accomplish that by calling them mouth breathers.

            •  I wonder if Dr. King would agree with you. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              happymisanthropy, andgarden
              Segregation in the South collapsed not just because of federal court decisions but because enough Southern whites felt enough shame at seeing peaceful demonstrators beaten and jailed and subjected to dogs and fire hoses.
              •  Read his Letter from Birmingham Jail (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bob Johnson

                which was in response to white clergymen who urged him to back off. King replied with a concise, reasoned and passionate synopsis of the goals of the Birmingham campaign in 1963 and its underlying moral force.

                King speaks of his frustrations with white moderates and the need to rip off the scab and let them see the wounds of segregation.

                Here is how it is expressed in "Peril of the Sword":

                The aim of the sword is to defeat injure and humiliate an oppressor But the true aim should be to convert him, to change his understanding and his sense of values.
                Of course, King knew that the only way to convert oppressors was to hold up to the light of day the evil that they tacitly support in a way that cannot be ignored.
            •  It is not that Southern whites felt that shame of (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bob Johnson, MT Spaces, lcbo, New Rule

              watching peaceful demonstrators jailed and beaten.  They saw that all the time.  It was when modern media exposed those activities to the rest of the world and the rest of the world let Southerners know that those activities would no longer be tolerated made the difference.  That and the public accommodations acts that allowed racial minorities into the same restaurants and hotels.  

              The difference now is that a substantial percentage of the modern media through the Tea Party, right wing radio, and Fox News has allowed that bigoted demographic to have that shame lifted and to have that bigotry reinforced on a national basis where the "other", in the form of racial minorities, Muslims, gays, women, and those other than the "real Americans"can be safely demonized.  Attitudes that would have been held up to ridicule are now nationally reinforced and nurtured on those places so that the shame no longer exists.

              And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

              by MrJersey on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 02:17:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed nt (0+ / 0-)

        The radical Republican party is the party of oppression, fear, loathing and above all more money and power for the people who robbed us.

        by a2nite on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 02:34:32 PM PDT

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    •  I don't think a bigot is a powerless person no (8+ / 0-)

      matter how old or poor they are. We are not attacking the powerless, we are attacking their bigoted behavior.

    •  It's ok, they don't read this site (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and the ones that will hear about it on right wing radio ARE stupid, hateful, ignorant, and bigoted

      To be a Republican, you have to believe that our economic problems are caused by the poor having too much money and the rich not having enough.

      by Tommy Jones the Band on Tue Mar 13, 2012 at 01:39:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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