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View Diary: We Need to Talk About the Social Contract (108 comments)

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  •  Nope ... Their words (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly, sb, Saint Jimmy, Onomastic, kyril, MKSinSA

    do not have to come from my mouth.

    They state a position, I will only discuss the evidence for it, if they have any.

    I like your theory, but you can't have a discussion, ever, if all it comprises is two or more people stating their own points of view in a vacuum.

    "I refuse to accept that Sandra Fluke has anything to answer to. Show me some real, verifiable evidence and we might have something to discuss.

    What is apparent is the Rush Limbaugh is cruelly maligning a young woman, for personal gain".

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 11:27:52 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That's fine. But instead of saying that, I'd ask (22+ / 0-)

      them if they have daughters, mothers, sisters, and if they'd feel OK with what Rush is doing if it were their daughter, sister or mother.

      "You're on your own" within the context of a society IS sociopathic. - kovie

      by Killer of Sacred Cows on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 11:31:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Very good point nt (8+ / 0-)

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        by twigg on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 11:40:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (11+ / 0-)

        Ask them questions, and try to personalize it to their experience and the world they live in.

        I had a very useful discussion once about the issue of gay marriage. I did have to use a "fact" to  open the door - that some people think that being gay is not a choice. She was quite willing to take on that concept, fortunately; but pointed out even heterosexual people are celibate when they need to be, in fact being single right now, she was. So then I talked about before she was single (Her husband died some years ago) and how she missed the closeness, the bond and the intimacy - much of it not even sexual in nature. She agreed with that. I pointed out that when, or if, she was ready she could seek out another such relationship. She of course agreed with that. Then I asked her how, in all justice we could ask a gay person, who had no choice in being gay, to sacrifice all hope of ever having such a relationship, such bonds, such commitment for their entire life.  (And the last was asked with a bit of pathos, I confess) And then it got quiet, and in a bit the group went on to other topics.

        from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

        by Catte Nappe on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 02:43:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Then don't have a discussion (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Killer of Sacred Cows, kyril

      Why discuss shit with authoritarians?  They've got an emotional agenda which ultimately leads to, dad knows best and truth comes from above and the bad must be punished.  Hopefully we've got an agenda that says you, and you, and you -- all of you, no matter who you are -- you kick ass, and should be proud of how we all treat each other, and truth is something we all work to learn our life long.  If you want to believe all those awful things about people, well, go ahead -- listen to our opponents.  Its like living in a dark room smelling your own underwear, and we don't need to debate their points -- a smart six year old can get it. If you want a better place to live, to raise your kids, to grow old?  If you want to be glad for what we share and feel enobled by our choices?  Listen to us.

      ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

      by jessical on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 01:37:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Talk to the ones who can be reached. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jessical, ladybug53, Onomastic, kyril, MKSinSA

        Authoritarians generally cannot. But we can change the conversation so that we are not reinforcing their beliefs.

        "You're on your own" within the context of a society IS sociopathic. - kovie

        by Killer of Sacred Cows on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 01:47:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well, yeah (4+ / 0-)

          and ultimately it is about audience, right?  I mean, my friend Bob the authoritarian, I'm going to try to get him to kind of loosen up, address the crazy point by point and try to give the big picture.  But politicians who are addressing all of us should be offering a moral vision, as you say, rather than deciding what nasty things can't be challenged and shoehorning in their little bit of good.  The shoehorning shows, and it costs us dearly.

          ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

          by jessical on Wed Mar 14, 2012 at 01:55:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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