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View Diary: Now We Know What Scott Olsen Was Shot With. Update. (126 comments)

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  •  Notice the shot shells in the photo (17+ / 0-)

    There are two types of shot shells, low brass use for close range targets, rabbits, squirrel, turkey, grouse, and high brass shells used for longer range targets like geese or ducks. The difference is in the length of the brass cylinder and the size of the powder charge contained within.

    What I notice about these "non-lethal" police rounds is they are high brass shells, and I will add they are intended to be used at close range.

    What the fuck is wrong with these people? Seriously. I looked into what they were using for pepper spray against occupy protesters and it turned out they are using basically the same stuff used to stop attacking grizzly bears. It's sick.

    •  actually High vs Low brass is a marketing ploy (7+ / 0-)

      the pressure is contained by the plastic and the chamber, the only reason the brass is there at all it to aid in extraction....

      Activ made a solid plastic shell that was popular for a while....

      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
      Emiliano Zapata

      by buddabelly on Thu Mar 15, 2012 at 09:12:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  low brass vs high brass (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buddabelly

        Check this out.

        There's a lot of marketing in the movement of this guy's shoulder.

        •  Can't do video so that's no help, however I do (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          oklacoma dem

          reload 12 and 20 gauge shotshell so I have an understanding of what is happening internally...

          The brass really has nothing to do with the load...I can take a cheapy steel base low wall and reload it to the heaviest buckshot or slug load you can think of....safely with no problems as long as the recipe is followed...also the load books make no differentiation between high or low brass, the difference is in shell type.

          There are 2 basic types of shot shell anymore, those that are injection molded so that the basewad is part of the sidewalls and those with a separate basewad...On both types, the brass is only there so the extractor has something to grab and pull the shell out.

          There's even solid brass 12 gauge but again it's a looks thing not a functional need...

          All that really matters is the shell length and that the proper type of wad and powder are used depending on whether it's a straight wall Federal type or a tapered wall like the Winchester AA shotshells...

          I just looked on the bench and there's a factory high brass reduced recoil 2 3/4 next to a low brass standard 00 buck... If the brass mattered, the reduced recoil would be low while the standard would be high....

          I can't even get into my photobucket account on this box (old ) or I could show you a couple sectioned rounds so you could see the internal difference.....

          http://data.hodgdon.com/...

          Take a look at the link, it's the Hodgdon powder loading data guide...You might have to click agree to hold harmless then click shotshell then shell type....You'll notice there isn't a mention of high or low brass, all that matters is sidewall and basewad construction.....

          http://www.remington.com/...

          Take a look at these Remington STS shells, one of the recommended buckshot shells...notice that they're low brass.....as are the Win AA, AA-HS and so on....

          I'm using Win XX slug hulls to reload shorty slugs, got it down to 1 5/8" safe pressures and good accuracy... most reloaders toss them because they're a pain to work with but in my app they're ok.....if not a highly experienced loader only use published data exactly as shown......shotshell can be fun to load and also can be a nightmare if you don't follow the recipes exactly....it's no fun when a gun blows up on you.....

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Fri Mar 16, 2012 at 12:48:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ok, I surrender, w/one question (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            buddabelly

            and since you can't see the video, the guy shows two shells, a light load trainer, which is low brass, and a heavy load magnum, which is high brass. He is actually demonstrating a low recoil shotgun, but there's still far more shoulder movement with the magnum load.

            So here's the question: Most of your discussion is around custom loads, or at least home reloading. W/regard to factory loads, are the heavier loads generally high brass so you have a visual of the kind of shell you're about to fire, without having to read the box or actually fire it to find out? (That's consistant with my experience andyway)

            •  Mostly they are, but mostly any specialty load (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              oklacoma dem

              from the factory is loaded in High Brass hulls because of the visual perception of quality.....

              The visual perception is what I'm calling the marketing ploy, some manufacturers decided to market the high brass as high performance stuff no matter what and eventually the public perception they created began to force the "High Brass" shells or otherwise, unless it's a rare duck, it won't gain market share.... people want to see " Personal Protection" or Hunting ammo have high brass now or it never gets a fair shot....

              Therefor the cheap practice ammo has short steel bases while high dollar specialty rounds of any type have high brass...Yet the most popular rounds for reloading, almost no matter the power, are almost always short brass because reloaders want a product that does what they need, be sturdy and reuseable no matter the load....

              it's no big I get too carried away with the correct terminology sometimes....

              Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
              I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
              Emiliano Zapata

              by buddabelly on Fri Mar 16, 2012 at 05:26:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  and I reload because of the price difference (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              oklacoma dem

              I like a light recoil due to a bad back and it's achievable at a lot less cost than the specialty "Reduced Recoil" ammunition.

              Plus I'm not hunting with my ammunition so why should I buy full power 3" magnums and just beat myself to death when I can put together a reduced recoil yet still effective and accurate round for maybe 30 cents instead of the couple bucks the big manufacturers charge for a similar round. The cheapest slug or Buck rounds are usually a buck a piece and I can do it for a quarter.......

              plus if you want you can put together very high quality hunting ammunition at a third the cost or sometimes less...

              Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
              I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
              Emiliano Zapata

              by buddabelly on Fri Mar 16, 2012 at 05:36:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Apparently demostrators are to be as feared as (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, elwior

      angry grizzly bears. .

      Sure says something about the authoritarian mindset living in perpetual fear.
      Certainly it gets in the way of any meaningful dialogue.

      I am much too liberal to be a Democrat.

      by WiseFerret on Thu Mar 15, 2012 at 01:55:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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