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View Diary: Catholic Church 'sets the record straight' on women's health care (124 comments)

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  •  From your profile (2+ / 0-)
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    StellaRay, Panama Pete

    Natural contrarian, and ornery, to boot.

    Honest and accurate.

    Also incomplete.  I would add: prefer to jump to conclusions and defend my opinion regardless of the arguments or ideas presented. Outrageous distortion of someone else's opinion is my forte.

    Check this out.

    How facts backfire.

    "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

    by Ginny in CO on Fri Mar 16, 2012 at 10:07:14 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks for the link (0+ / 0-)

      to an article I had read previously. If the point of the so-called research (which is actually pretty badly designed, leading to flimsy conclusions) is that people stick to their beliefs in the face of "facts," then that has almost no relevance to what I wrote. There is no "fact" that says anything should or should not be a choice between competing alternatives. In a crude fashion, this is the famous fact/value distinction. The choice between alternatives is based on some prior standard, not on any fact. Facts don't "speak for themselves."

      1) XYZ are facts about human nature
      2) Doing Q is in accord with human nature
      3) therefore do Q

      The above looks logical, and it is, but only on the assumption that you have chosen as a standard to do things in accord with human nature. That choice is not itself based on any fact, but on some judgment that doing things in accord with human nature is better than some other alternative. And that is what people like to call a "value judgment."

      As you corrected my profile, allow me to suggest you add to yours: "I tend to leap to conclusions about stuff I don't really understand. Oh well."

      •  Syllogism correction (0+ / 0-)

        The syllogism should actually read

        1) XYZ are facts about human nature
        2) Doing Q is in accord with XYZ.
        3) therefore do Q

      •  Please Blockquote the statements (0+ / 0-)

        Stella Ray made that led you to paraphrase her argument as you did.

        The 'facts' here involve reading comprehension.

        Given the two degrees in BS, one being sociology, I am familiar with research design - especially that kind of questioning. Since I follow a lot of this kind of understanding the human brain stuff, my evaluation of research is with integration into other known facts; as well as my 35 years as an RN helping people learn stuff they don't want to.

        David Sirota has the am liberal radio show in Denver and he goes ballistic about people putting words in his mouth. He does not allow for basic communications failures - especially verbal. He even puts words in the mouths of his callers, so I've given up listening to him. Your written words came across as someone who had not really read or understood what you were arguing against.

         I do come to conclusions about stuff I don't have all the facts on, or the connections right. Basic reality of life. Especially in the age of information explosion: at some point you have to stop researching and make a decision. I do keep looking for new information and correct my knowledge base when I find errors. Noted you corrected your error.

        What I should add to the profile: Given the post crash state of my life, there are days I am pissed at the whole world. Usually I stay off the Net, not always.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Sun Mar 18, 2012 at 07:15:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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