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View Diary: The progressive fight against the encroachment of religion on our secular government (202 comments)

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  •  NO. Concientious objector status (0+ / 0-)

    is not

    on the grounds of his Quaker religion
    .  It is on the grounds of opposition to killing- and the effect that would have on the life and safety, not to mention effectiveness of the military.  Claiming membership in the Quaker sect does NOT make one a concientious objector- it is merely one piece of evidence of a concientious objection to killing.

    Most important, "accomodation" to that personal belief- since it is also in the interest of the military not to have soldiers who will not kill, is in no way similar to the "religious Freedom tm" which allows people whose church heirarchy opposes birth control to try to prohibit others from using it.

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Sun Mar 18, 2012 at 12:28:52 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That is not what I said but thanks anyway (0+ / 0-)

      I did not say being a Quaker was an automatic anything. Quakerismt is recognized officially by the guovernment as one of the accepted rationales that document one's pacifism.

      Like it or not, the US government recognizes and respects Quarkerism (in this particular example) on some level. It respects and respects many religions through many accommodations in public life.

      Life in the USA is not and has never been as this diary claims. American democracy is not about exterminating all recognition of religion in government. Religion exists, American citizens are religions. Their rights are as valid as anyone's. Their opinions therefore naturally make up the democratic brew called American society.

      •  I apologise. (0+ / 0-)

        I was only responding to what you wrote (that the concientious objector status was given "on the grounds of his Quaker Religion (sic)", not what you were apparently thinking.


        US government recognizes and respects Quarkerism
        only to the extent that it "respects" all religions, including, supposedly, Islam.

        I stand by my comment that it is not Quakerism per se which grants one the status of concientious objector.  It is not automatic for anyone who claims to be a member of the Society of Friends.

        And yes, some or even most, but  most assuredly not all Americans are religious.  - Which is all the more reason that the wall of separation between church and State exists.  Jefferson's letter to the  Dansborough Baptists was to reassure them that they would not be under the thumb of Congregationalists.  The BC controversy would have us all under the thumb of the Catholics.

        The whole point of this discussion is that the views of some (but not all) Catholics and Evangelicals should not dictate to the rest of us.  As several people have pointed out, the fact that Quakers abhor violence and take alternate service is not used as a basis to prevent others from serving in the military- and their taxes continue to go to support foreign wars- even ones of primary agression like Iraq.  Somehow, the religious views of some are used to prevent everyone's taxes from supporting women's health and the right to choose.

        As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

        by BPARTR on Sun Mar 18, 2012 at 03:26:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I never said it was Quakerism per se (0+ / 0-)

          We never disagreed on that. My point has nothing to do with the Quakerism EXAMPLE at all. Pick another EXAMPLE if this one is getting in the way of understanding. There are any number of such examples.

          The point is outlined in the very first post of this thread. The laws in America do in point of fact accommodate religious sensibilities.

          The diarist who wrote this essay claims this is not the case. This thread challenged that claim.

          Has this 15th or so repetition of the context of this particular thread been sufficient?

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