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View Diary: The Deal with Catholics (247 comments)

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  •  As bad as it is, the Catholic Church (24+ / 0-)

    did not invent evil practices and is NOT responsible for every evil in this world ... The Church was not responsible for the Fall of Rome and the subsequent chaos that ensued.  In many cases, the Roman Church was the sole source of scholarship and succor in Western Europe during the times following the Fall of Rome, that are often referred to as the Dark Ages.

    And the practice of pressing people to death was not done for fun by the Roman Church... pressing people to death was done long before the Christian Era ... and in the colonial US it was done by the New England crowd which were not Catholic bunch

    Yes, the Roman Church has many sins to answer for and the worst sins are that it has not been faithful to Christ its founder.

    Many of the things you accuse the Roman Church of are also practices of other religions and groups throughout history ... the Roman Church has no monopoly on them...
    The excesses of the French Revolution were done by people who claimed to be Rationalist..worshippers of Reason ...
    Most of our Founding Fathers were complicit of racist practices, not only slavery, but in their dealings with the Native Americans

    it seems that from the time of written history, every civilization has practiced things we consider evil .. slavery, war, racism, oppression of the other...
    The biggest sin of the Roman Church (and other religions and philosophies also) is that the core beliefs of these institutions are supposed to bring antidotes to such horrible practices, but all have failed ...
    and these institutions have allowed the exploiters to have more influence than the devout believers

    Give your heart a real workout! Love your enemies!

    by moonbatlulu on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 05:34:33 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  good points about the scholarship in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins, Onomastic

      the Middle Ages BUT the Church was also very anti science even then and it stifled intellectual growth and inquiry.

      They tried to preserve ancient learning but largely to serve their goals.  Real scientists were considered heretics

      •  Yeah (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mookins, Onomastic, kyril

        One thing that kept sticking out for me in Western Civ class when I learned about the history of the church was how well Sarah Palin et al. would've fit in back then.  Rabidly anti-science and pro everything I hate.

        •  whether she fit in or not, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Onomastic, GDbot, kyril

          Sarah Palin would have had no way to be an influential being in the Middle Ages ... unless she had been born to royalty .. and even then she would have just been a pawn in marriage game - she hasn't demonstrated that she has the intelligence to have been any kind of influential person ...
          Most of the influential women were nuns, like Catherine of Siena and Saint Teresa of Avila or Clare of assisi ...or the Abbesses who presided over coed convents through the Middle ages

          maybe Sarah could have been a Saint Joan, although I don't see Sarah sticking with the call ;-)  

          And as for the Church being rabidly anti-science, it is important to read all the facts regarding these debates ...
          the controversy over a helio centric world vs a geocentric one was more over the philosophical problems that would be presented that over the science ...

          Give your heart a real workout! Love your enemies!

          by moonbatlulu on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 10:11:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  but it is always that way.... (8+ / 0-)

        anyone or anything threatening the status quo  (and new scientific discoveries are one of the biggest threats)  are always greeted with hostility ... and it wasn't just the Catholic Church that behaved this way toward new ideas

        but the fact is that the Church kept literacy alive in Western Europe

        Whenever people live in fearsome and unstable times, they react to newness with fear ... in many places the Church was the only stable force ... that was why it became politically powerful .. and in the process forgot its primary goals and concentrated on keeping the rules for their own sake...

        and many institutions before,during, and since have done the same ...

        Protestant, Enlightment England was not really thrilled with Jefferson's new idea that the right to govern rested with the consent of the governed...
        (except in the cases of females, and people of color, and possibly non-land owning white males)

        Give your heart a real workout! Love your enemies!

        by moonbatlulu on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 09:51:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  the catholic church is almost solely responsible (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OIL GUY, lcj98

        for modern science

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      •  I don't understand this comment-- (0+ / 0-)

        Who are the "real scientists" that you refer to?  I don't think anything that we would call "science" existed in the Middle Ages -- and definitely not anything that they called science at the time.  There was alchemy and astrology, and a little botany here and there.  There was some study of Aristotle, which the Church usually supported, and when any innovation took place in the study of physics or optics, as with Jan Buridan or Roger Bacon, it was sponsored and supported under Church auspices.

        It's true that in the 1600s, the Church threatened and condemned Galileo, but we cannot project that particular conflict back into earlier times a places where it didn't happen.

        We might take issue with the dogmatism and traditionalism of the Catholic Church, but there were long stretches of time where if you were interested in any intellectual inquiry at all, your best bet was to join monastery, a convent, or a cathedral school.

    •  Stalin and Mao and Hitler and Pol Pot (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      old possum

      were all materialists and rationalists. (Hitler made reference to God in public, but in his recorded and transcribed private "Table Talk" made it explicit that he regarded that as complete shit and religionists, especially Catholics, as morons.)


      Today, if you exist... that's already suspicious.

      by Jim P on Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 11:21:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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