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View Diary: Stand Your Ground (210 comments)

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  •  From Reagans words (3+ / 0-)

    "Anniversary" is a word we usually associate with happy events that we like to remember: birthdays, weddings, the first job. March 30, however, marks an anniversary I would just as soon forget, but cannot... four lives were changed forever, and all by a Saturday-night special – a cheaply made .22 caliber pistol – purchased in a Dallas pawnshop by a young man with a history of mental disturbance. This nightmare might never have happened if legislation that is before Congress now – the Brady bill – had been law back in 1981... If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land. And there would be a lot fewer families facing anniversaries such as the Bradys, Delahantys, McCarthys and Reagans face every March 30

    •  Uh huh (10+ / 0-)

      And the law he sought passed, the NICS was established, and I don't know anyone who has a problem with it.
      What's your point?

      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

      by kestrel9000 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 07:48:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That obviusly (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splintersawry, emelyn

        it was a gun issue

        •  Forks made me fat (13+ / 0-)

          I want them banned.
          And I'm willing to sacrifice the next elections, and the future of America, to the Republicans to get them banned.
          And people will still have forks, and some of them will still be fat.

          "She's petite, extremely beautiful, and heavily armed." -1995 Michael Moore documentary Canadian Bacon

          by Tom Seaview on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 07:55:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hahahha (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            emelyn

            How funny . It's hilarious. I can't stop laughing. you the man. Forks who would have thought of that all by him self?

            •  Trayvon is dead if Zimmerman has a knife. (5+ / 0-)

              They came to blows first.

              Today, strive to be the person you want to be.

              by GoGoGoEverton on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 08:31:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Zimmerman wouldn't have chased Martin down (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Iberian, PsychoSavannah, JesseCW

                if he'd only had a knife, and we wouldn't be discussing this.

                As long as you're speculating, I can too.

              •  No (0+ / 0-)

                First stabbing someone lethally is not easy, not with any kind of knife. Second you can learn how to be lethal  with a gun in a couple of hours, with a knife takes way more than that.

                Second would Zimmerman had confronted Trayvon armed only with knife?

                Third having a knife does not mean that you are going to win a fight against an unarmed person? having a gun doesn't either but the chances skyrocket.

                I might have ended the same but if we taking bets I cover a spread up to 5 to 1 that it would have not

                •  Actually, stabbing to death is simple. (5+ / 0-)

                  Slicing to death is difficult... therefore in the old days, players would slice you with a razor, so you carry the scars and thus spread the word not to juke with your assailant.
                  Leave his car, his women, his family, his business, alone.

                  Stabbing someone in both lungs, the liver, and slicing a few major abdominal arteries - means that you're done and on your way in well under 30 seconds.  
                  The Columbians did this more often than the "necktie" made famous in media.

                  Those stabbed, often "live" to the hospital, only to be pronounced dead in surgery.

                  A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything. ~ Malcolm X.

                  by 43north on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 09:01:52 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Stabbing to dead is easy? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ehrenfeucht games

                    Have you ever worked in hospital?
                    Just go to the statistics and count the number of stabbing wounds compered to fatalities.

                    Stabbing to kill is not that easy. How many stabbing assassinations have multiple stab wounds?

                    Also players use razors and other slashing devices because they could not afford to spend time in jail without controlling their "stable". So they used things that police could not put charges on them

                    And is COlombian the country is Colombia.

                    •  FYI (5+ / 0-)

                      1) nearly 2 decades as a state-certified medic, including a stint working out of Beekman Downtown Hospital.

                      2) Many.  Some were targeted assassinations, other stabbing rages.

                      3) You slice someone, and the PoPo can damn-well put attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon on you.
                      Hell, in some precincts they'd even run your stable, while you vacation upstate.

                      That said, you can ignore it all... Columbia was written, therefore one must invoke: "teh spellcheck fucktard rule".

                      A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything. ~ Malcolm X.

                      by 43north on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 10:44:30 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Weapon charges (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        ehrenfeucht games

                        I did not call you any names. It's not about grammar correction but about the name of a country and its people, some friends, that really get irked by the Columbian thing

                        So as a medic you'll agree that a single  stabbing wound that lead to a fatality is a very low percentage.  

                        •  So are shootings. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          theatre goon, ER Doc

                          Shootings have less than a 10% fatality rate.  Not sure what the knife fatality rate is, I'll try to look it up.

                          •  There is a difference though (0+ / 0-)

                            When you mention shootings are you talking about impacts or just shoot outs?
                            I can see that in all shoot out only 10% end in fatalities, but what is the relation to wounds.

                            Then we could, if we had the data, check about calibers. On the edge/puncture weapons we could also look the sizes but because we are talking just about stabbings we have to disqualify a lot of edge weapons that cause slashing and impact wounds like machetes.
                            Best stabbing weapon would be a short sword like the Roman gladii or a heavy spear, but we don't see many assaults with ancient weapons.

                          •  Actual persons being shot. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Iberian

                            And I was off in in my stats.  I was going from a memory of approx. 100K firearms injuries/year, which is incorrect.

                            According to the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/...

                            Fatal Injury Reports

                            Year - 2009
                            Population - 307 million

                            Firearm Unintentional - 554
                            Firearm Violence related - 11,826 (does not include  suicides)
                            Firearm Legal interventions - 333

                            Cut/Pierce Unintentional - 125
                            Cut/Pierce Violence related - 1,874 (does not include suicides)
                            Cut/Pierce Legal interventions - 0

                            Non-fatal Injury Reports

                            Year - 2009
                            Population - 307 million

                            Firearms Unintentional - 18,610
                            Total firearms injuries by violence - 48,158 (Includes criminal, defensive and self-harm)
                            Assault only - 44,466
                            Legal intervention - 679

                            Cut/Pierce Unintentional - 1,997,752
                            Total Cut/Pierce injuries by violence - 196,002 (Includes criminal, defensive and self-harm)
                            Assault only - 103,778
                            Legal intervention - 10,772

                            So you seem to be correct in your basic assumption that intentional firearms injuries are more often fatal than intentional stab/cut injuries.  

                          •  I thought so (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            knowing a little of the history of weapons and having been around ERs. Interestingly bullets also produce piercing wounds.

                            The thing is most objects used in piercing attacks are really not designed to kill like small knifes, screwdrivers or scissors.

                            Now if we were talking of past times and people carried real daggers and short swords I thinks the percentage of fatalities would grow.

                            Also  most people have some kind of training with guns, and very little with knives.

                            Thanks for the data

                          •  You have some valid points there. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Iberian

                            I shall ponder.  Thanks!

                          •  P.S. I wonder about how the cut/pierce stats (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Iberian

                            would look if broken down by type.  For instance knives 2" and less, Knives 2-3.5 inches (approx. legal lengths for folding knives in many jurisdictions), knives 3.5-5" (common lengths for fixed-blade knives), knives +5", field vs. culinary, fixed vs. folding, scissors, picks, tubes, rods, etc.

                            Fascinating, if gruesome, train of thought.

                            There must be a study/stats compilation somewhere...

                          •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PavePusher

                            particularly to see a difference between piercing and slashing.For example katanas and other Japanese swords. Probably coroners have these type of data

                      •  If Iberian hadn't, I would have. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Iberian
                        That said, you can ignore it all... Columbia was written, therefore one must invoke: "teh spellcheck fucktard rule".

                        "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

                        by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 03:51:44 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  rec'd for this: (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Iberian
                      And is COlombian the country is Colombia.
                      It's a pet peeve of mine.

                      "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

                      by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 03:50:03 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

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