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  •  That's why the law killed Traynor. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ehrenfeucht games
    "Stand your ground" and other justified use of force laws aren't about the conflict between you and your attacker. It's about the conflict between you and the state once it's time to sort out the mess.
    The point of requiring retreat was so that someone woulnd't end up dead, thereby requiring the law to "sort out the mess" of a dead kid.  Which is only a mess and needs sorting out because the law makes it an arguable question over whether the killing was justiifed.

    Maybe, just maybe, it's better to have people back off and not have a homicide and resutling "mess".   This law takes a schoolyard morality of "why should I leave, I'll look like a pussy, he's the prick" and makes it a matter of violence.  And before you say "citation", you have a case right in front of you.

    Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

    by Inland on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 08:28:55 AM PDT

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    •  And requiring retreat presumes that the needs (7+ / 0-)

      of the attacker are superior to those of the defender; in that the onus is on the defender to quickly determine if escape is possible before turning to force, not on the attacker to not be attacking in the first place.

      The notion that the legal responsibility for preventing such a homicide falls even significantly on a legitimate defender, and not entirely on the attacker, is perverse.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 08:51:33 AM PDT

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      •  Christ, that's ugly. Thanks for nothing. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ehrenfeucht games, blindcynic

        It doesn't.  It presumes that retreat keeps any confrontation from escalating.  Who is the big pussy and who deserves to be where is "the mess" that can be straightened out later by the law.   But once someone's dead, it's not a mess that can be straightened out.  Someone's already dead.

        In the case before you, the sensible law would have required Zimmerman to let the police come and determine who had the right to the sidewalk.

        But you say, what the law should do is decide who was right after the parties fight it out over the sidewalk, or bar, or girl, or wahtever.  With the expected casualties, because the right to stand one's ground only counts if you're the armed one....and I don't even have to look to see who's reccing your obscene comments.

        Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

        by Inland on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 11:25:17 AM PDT

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    •  Exactly! (0+ / 0-)
      The point of requiring retreat was so that someone woulnd't end up dead, thereby requiring the law to "sort out the mess" of a dead kid.  Which is only a mess and needs sorting out because the law makes it an arguable question over whether the killing was justiifed.

      "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

      by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Mar 23, 2012 at 03:42:11 PM PDT

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