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View Diary: How regulation came to be: Pasteurization (205 comments)

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  •  You should know that it's very trendy (3+ / 0-)

    on the left to drink raw milk as well.

    My own point of view is that regulation is appropriate but also that it's fine to give people a path, as in cow-shares, if they really really really really really want. I think having federal authorities storming a dairy for selling raw milk is over the top. As long as people know what they buy and have been given enough information to understand the risk, I think that's sufficient.

    I love dsteffen's series, but certainly it's true that sometimes regulations take on a life of their own, with people making all kinds of crazy contortions for some special case. The cow-share loophole is that you can drink raw milk from a cow you own. I think there's not much value in making that illegal.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 11:14:08 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Until that particular 'cow' gets sick (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, dsteffen

      and passes it on to the drinkers...then watch people howl.

      It's to be hoped that the raw milk providers are regularly  testing for tuberculin bacilli among other things...but how do you know?

      A weapon that is also a treasure is certain to be used.

      by wonderful world on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 05:44:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  'How you know' is the idea (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe wobblie

        You go to the farm and check out their operation.  You educate yourself on what to look for.  If they're not doing things up to your standards, you don't drink it.  If they are, why should the government second-guess your standards for yourself?

        •  Because YOU can't afford all the testing THEY can (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dsteffen

          To put it quite simply and bluntly, the government can afford to run batteries of tests to make damn sure than no insidious microbes have slipped past the farmer's precautions. It DOES happen, and YOU probably can't catch it. But THEY can.

          You're wasting your time on this issue - why don't you put some effort into insisting on fair labeling so that people who want growth hormone free milk can keep finding it properly labeled and not having to put up with the stupid legal disclaimer that there is "no difference" - when the scientific evidence says "oh yes there is!"

          You'd get a lot more support for THAT.

          If it's
          Not your body,
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          And it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 07:53:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh no, I can't afford other people's standards! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joe wobblie

            Again, maybe I don't agree that some tests are necessary.  Maybe I don't agree that some equipment is necessary.  You assume that the government is going to do its job perfectly, even though it has made and continues to make mistakes.  I appreciate an agency with highly-qualified people and cutting-edge equipment making recommendations; I don't appreciate being told that I am forced to follow them.

    •  the consenting adult principle applies. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dsteffen

      Consenting adults have every right to take their own risks.

      Where I draw the line is when it comes to putting kids at risk or putting the community at risk from contagious diseases.  

      If the risks of raw milk do not include contagious diseases that can be spread to other humans, and if people don't feed it to kids, fine with me.  

      Though, I won't touch the stuff.  

      "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

      by G2geek on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 08:16:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is so fucking hip it makes me sick. And if (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gnbhull, dsteffen, charliehall2

      I'm the only one who gets sick, I'll be happy. The "take back our food" movement (most of which I approve of) has put a lot of topics in a blender, put it on frappe, and made them inseparable. So we wind up with some people (Organic Consumers Assoc) who rail about disease organisms in food defending their "right" to drink potentially tainted milk. Doesn't matter if you bring up case after case of infection with raw milk drinkers, that's all backpedaled. Let them get sick and burn up their insurance deductibles, just don't let me hear they let their kids drink it and they got sick.

      Somehow, pasteurization has become a plot by dairy conglomerates to keep unhealthy cows in production, therefore drinking raw milk is an act of rebellion. There's more to it, some dubious claims of probiotics in raw milk, etc., but it's mostly a cool thing to do. They simultaneously want it more available but love the semi-illegal nature of the whole thing.

      I've tried to have a reasonable discussion with some people on this site, but they're pretty unreasonable.

      “The first principle [in science] is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.” Richard Feynman

      by the fan man on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 08:38:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't miss the forest for the trees (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe wobblie

        or rather the principles for the issues.  The principle is that ONLY I should have the right to decide whether or not something is safe enough to put in MY body.

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