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View Diary: Statistics, Guns, and Wishful Thinking (106 comments)

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  •  Your arguments are dismissed because your (9+ / 0-)

    premise is wrong. When the foundation is bad, the house isn't built correctly.

    Your 'belief' that less guns = less gun crime doesn't quite work when you take the liberalization of firearms laws over the course of the last 25 years and then look at the violent crime rate. I'm not saying more guns = less crime, but more guns != more crime.

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 02:24:25 PM PDT

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    •  You can't deny (0+ / 0-)

      You can not deny that 62,000 Americans died by fatal gunshot in 2008.  You can't deny that 67% of murders in the US are done using a gun.  You can't deny that the US has the highest rate of firearm-related deaths of all the westernized industrialized countries in the world.  You can not deny that American children are nine times more likely to die due to an accidental gunshot wound than children in other industrialized nations.

      We do not know if Less Guns = Less Gun Crime or if Less Guns != Less Gun Crime, because neither theory has never been rigorously tested.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 03:19:04 PM PDT

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      •  Yes, we can deny that. (4+ / 0-)
      •  Not contesting your figures (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea

        But without a breakout for the long guns that are used as tools, rather than for "protection" or similar your overall gun statistics aren't going to convince people who consider guns a normal part of life.

        They'll just say "yeah, a bunch of stupid city people who don't respect guns are shooting each other with handguns".  

        Lots of people die in automobile accidents too, but people who need a car to get to work aren't going to care about safety statistics compared to that of people who use the subways in New York.    Subways don't serve their needs, cars do.  So you can talk to them about safer cars, but threaten to take all cars away and they'll freak out.

      •  Contesting your figures (8+ / 0-)
        Table 10. Number of deaths from 113 selected causes, Enterocolitis due to Clostridium difficile, drug-induced causes, alcohol-induced causes, and injury by firearms, by age:
        United States, 2008
        firearms accidents, 592
        "intentional self-harm by discharge of firearms," 18,223
        firearms homicides, 12,179
        "discharge of firearms, undertermined intent," 273

        then down below it says

        Injury by firearms | 31,593
        I'm not sure why the numbers don't add up, but in any case it isn't 62,000.  

        So yes, I can contest your figures.

        Ask your barista what her degree is in.

        by happymisanthropy on Mon Mar 26, 2012 at 08:27:39 PM PDT

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      •  Your statistics are wrong. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hagagaga, theatre goon, 43north

        As shown in another reply to your comment.

        I've already suggested ways to bring down the negligent/accidental (I hate that term) firearm death rate.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 06:08:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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