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View Diary: Statistics, Guns, and Wishful Thinking (106 comments)

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  •  No. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theatre goon, hagagaga

    you're wrong, the two case groups represent subsets of the NMFS, not the entire NMFS data set.

    Specifically, the first case group represents people killed in homicide.  A non-random sample of the whole data set.  That's why the table is titled

    Characteristics of homicide case subjects 18 years old or
    older who died in 1993 and living control subjects.
    If they had done it the way you're saying, they only would have needed one case group to cover both homicide and suicide.

    Ask your barista what her degree is in.

    by happymisanthropy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 09:39:09 AM PDT

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    •  Correct (0+ / 0-)

      You are correct.  However, this sample was collected from the NMFS data; subjects became part of the NMFS not because they were murdered, but by virtue of being dead of any cause.

      So, are you satisfied with the study methods, findings, and conclusions, or do you have concerns that prevent you from accepting the study results and conclusions?

      Do you still think the data in Table 1 on gun ownership negates the results and conclusions?

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 09:50:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they don't negate the conclusion (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hagagaga, theatre goon

        they just show that they don't apply in the real world.

        Ask your barista what her degree is in.

        by happymisanthropy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:10:46 AM PDT

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        •  Wha? (0+ / 0-)

          Your statement is non-sensical.

          Either the conclusions apply in the real world, or the conclusions are erroneous.  Wiebe is not writing about imaginary life on Jupiter or Mars.  The Annals of Emergency Medicine does not publish research about fictitious worlds.  

          Tho' I take it you no longer maintain that the data in Table 1 somehow negates the study conclusions, correct?

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:25:19 AM PDT

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          •  but they do (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            hagagaga, KVoimakas, theatre goon

            see fit to publish articles on guns, when their specialty is supposed to be medicine.

            Ask your barista what her degree is in.

            by happymisanthropy on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 11:55:14 AM PDT

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            •  Now you are just babbling (0+ / 0-)

              You have yet to make one cogent argument criticizing the study on the grounds of method, findings, or conclusion.  

              Yet you continue to impy the study is without merit.

              Just like the conservatives do with the findings of scientists regarding the facts of climate change: you ignore or discount the facts because the facts do not argree with your opinions and beliefs.

              Bush reminded us that "facts are stubborn things".  To me, this means the facts continue to be true, whether you acknowledge them or not.  

              Whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not, the emprical data shows that guns are associated with human death and injury.  Those who are not blinded by their pro-gun prejudice understand this readily.  

              Unfortunately, America continues to be held hostage by the wealth of the gun industry, ready to use its money to corrupt our law-makers, and the willingness of gun enthusiasts such as yourself to turn a blind eye to the demonstrated factual consequences of such actions.

               

              "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

              by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 12:44:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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