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View Diary: Homicide detective wanted George Zimmerman charged with manslaughter, but prosecutors said no (225 comments)

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  •  Slight edit on your last sentence... (5+ / 0-)
    And that's not even considering the possibility that witnesses may have been coached, based on evidence that at least one witness had her account "corrected" by an officer.  

    'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 02:50:35 PM PDT

    •  On our local news here in Florida tonight (4+ / 0-)

      they quoted another witness account from the Orlando Sentinel:

      One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

      Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

      Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow then began hammering his head

      What a mess!
      Some witnesses claim they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, reports the Chicago Tribune. Others claim they heard a young man screaming for help, notes MSNBC. Then there is Trayvon's girlfriend, who was talking to him minutes before he died. Police never spoke to her, but she says he was afraid and was on the verge of running home.

      As prosecutors suggest, the conflicting stories certainly complicate things. Add in Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, and there's no surprise the entire situation has become a big mess. But this doesn't necessarily mean prosecutors did the right thing.

      Trayvon Punched, Slammed Zimmerman's Head: Cops

      Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt

      by hungrycoyote on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 05:39:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  since, i assume, the person did not know (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lefty Ladig

        either zimmerman or martin how the heck can they say unequivocally it was zimmerman crying for help?

        and what were they doing while they saw a guy getting pounded eating popcorn and cheering them on? no attempt to stop or intervene?

        and poundin on zimmerman- by zimmermans own account he only had a bloody nose and this he got when martin attacked him from behind?? and then there is the back of the head. most people would not describe shoving a head to the ground as pounding-pounding usually thought of as with fists and hitting as per boxing
          and if zimmerman shot martin while he was pounding how did he end up on his back when zimmerman was on top of martin? was martin pounding zimmerman with his back to him?
        my consensus- the witness is full of it

      •  If they were at some distance, how (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Remediator

        well could they see at night? It was pretty dark by that time.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Tue Mar 27, 2012 at 10:08:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  re: how dark was it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          milkbone

          We don't know for sure, but Zimmerman's story is that he exited his vehicle to look for a street sign in the rain.  Now, I think this is a lie, he got out to pursue the youth (and ended up BEHIND the townhouse, having never called in the supposed address or sign he was seeking) - but if he thought someone could possibly swallow that one then I guess it was fully dark and we also know it was raining, at least some.

          Trayvon is said to have told his g/f on the phone that he was waiting by the clubhouse for the rain to let up before he put up his hoodie and began to move away from the building, after being intimidated by the watchful eyes of Zimmerman, who was in his SUV calling the cops on him.  Later, 911 callers report that after the shooting, they saw flashlights in the dark behind the townhouse, presumably the first three officers arriving on the scene.  It was dark enough that cops used their flashlights, but not so dark that witnesses seem to have been able to see the difference between the man in a red shirt or jacket and the youth in a white or grey hoodie.  

          Also according to the statement made by Trayvon's g/f who was on the phone with him at the time, the two had a verbal exchange before she heard what she describes as Trayvon being pushed - then the call dropped.  I don't know if this means Zimmerman caught up to the "Walking fast/ running youth or if he drove ahead of his path and cut him off in the dark, but whatever happened, they didn't speak until they were face to face it seems.  The third option is that somehow the kid stopped walking fast/ running when he left the street and took the sidewalk between the backs of the townhouses, and Zimmerman caught up to him because he wasn't moving anymore.  

          This could mean several things - either he was "lurking in the dark waiting to "jump" Zimmerman, as Zimmerman seems to claim, or that he was catching his breath once he made it around the corner on foot, assuming that someone in a car in the rain wasn't going to bother to get out and chase him on foot for no real reason.  Trayvon's dad says he was about 70 yards from his destination, and he'd walked about a mile and one eighth round trip to get to the store and back, according to google maps.  

          What's important to an investigation is the location of where Zimmerman's vehicle was parked.  911 calls and the timing of the g/f call seem to form a running clock that will show how much elapsed time took place between the exiting of the vehicle, which is audible -(beeping is heard, and Zimm's breating gets heavy - this is where the operator asks if he is following the youth and tells Zimm "you don't need to do that for us") and the time when the g/f call drops and the time when the cries for help and the shot it fired.   It's important because Zimmerman claims he was RETURNING to his vehicle when he was "jumped" and this is to me what doesn't pass the smell test.  His story doesn't include him chasing the boy down, or running to cut him off because he knows this makes him the aggressor.  And yet the two meet up face to face somehow, when Zimmerman is supposedly getting out of his car to look at a street sign in the rain (in a community that has THREE streets total.)

          •  Very little makes sense of Zimmerman's story. (0+ / 0-)

            My suspicion is that at some point during the brief exchange, Trayvon  turned to leave, and Z touched him or pushed him down to prevent him from leaving, at which point IF there was an altercation, Trayvon may have punched him, and Z fell.   And Z pulled out the gun.

            Psychologists say the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior , and we know Trayvon didn't have a  history of fighting or being arrested--but Z has 2 counts of domestic violence and his run-in with the cops when he was arrested but was allowed to get into a program for first offenders.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 12:33:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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