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View Diary: Breaking News: ABC video - George Zimmerman EMBEDDED video (149 comments)

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  •  On the other hand, he does (7+ / 0-)

    look calm, like he didn't do anything wrong. Certainly doesn't look like he just murdered a kid in cold blood. His defenders are going to focus on this aspect.

    •  Being in handcuffs and escorted by police officers (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doroma, NYFM, Woody

      can tend to calm some folks down a bit.

      "Four more years!" (Obama Unencombered - The Sequel)

      by jwinIL14 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 05:46:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nor does he look like he's been in a fight (14+ / 0-)

      for his life. Or, at least, a fight worth taking someone elses life. Seems to me if you were beaten and just killed a kid, a sane person could think something was mighty wrong.

    •  Sounds like you are one of them (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FiredUpInCA, libnewsie, eru, ladyjames

      which is why you are focusing on this trivial issue in the midst of an overwhelming amount of damning evidence.

      Where is the blood from the broken nose? where is the blood on his shirt? No bandages? No ice packs, or swelling on his face or head?

      Furthermore the fact that he's so calm after he claimed to have been attacked in a scuffle is even more damning because it suggests that the outcome of the entire event is WHAT ZIMMERMAN wanted. The Sanford PD must have reassurred him that there would be no arrest or prosecution and that calmed him down real fast.

      This is someone who claimed that his head had been pounded in the pavement several times and he had a broken nose. Nothing in the video is consistent with these injuries. Plus to date there are no photographs of any bruises or head.

      This is a massive coverup and more than one person is going to jail.

      •  Nah, doc2's just the resident cynic (7+ / 0-)

        which can be helpful -- we need to remember that jumping to conclusions doesn't qualify as an aerobic exercise.

        The optimist sees the glass as half-full. The pessimist sees the glass as half-empty. The realist just knows she's thirsty.

        by Cali Scribe on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 06:26:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Sounds like you are one of them" (5+ / 0-)

        Eww. That's good. But saying shit like that really, ironically, makes YOU look like one of them. Because respectable people around here don't call people trolls so easily.

        •  doc2, this is a touchy subject, bringing up all (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil, Woody

          sorts of 'excited utterances' here and there, and some confusion as to what a person's comment really means is sometimes not so clear to all of us.

          Turn that accusatory comment into an apology by letting them know they've misjudged you without the rancor sometime - you might be surprised how easy it is to make a new friend by this method, instead of 2 people with bruised feelings.

          FYI, I did not get the idea that you were being harsh or offensive with your comment, just pointing out something which you found as obvious. I totally agree with your point.

          Perhaps Hopefruit2 missed the point-of-view you were speaking from and will be more careful in future when tossing out accusations without merit. I hope so.

          * * *
          I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization
          -- SCOTUS Justice O.W. Holmes Jr.
          * * *
          "A Better World is Possible"
          -- #Occupy

          by Angie in WA State on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:06:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Actually (13+ / 0-)

      He just killed someone and looks totally calm and in control. That looks real cold blooded to me.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 06:09:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  he's in shock. nt (0+ / 0-)

      Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

      by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 06:59:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  or he's used to being in handcuffs? n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nespolo, Angie in WA State, Woody
        •  one 911 witness who saw him after the murder (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sc kitty, Woody

          saw him wandering away from the body and then back to it, and clutching his hands to his head as if to say 'oh my god what have i done'.

          yeah, he's a murderer with a lot of issues, but the real criminal is a system who allowed him a concealed weapon and a law to protect him.

          i hope to god he gets put away for this because with those laws, he's really dangerous.  but ifeel enormously bad for him.

          Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

          by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 08:57:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Which does not in any way excuse (2+ / 0-)

            him. He called the cops, they told him to NOT follow, to let the police handle it.

            And he didn't.

            If I was walking home at night and some strange guy was following me, if he touched me I might attack him as well.

            •  nothing excuses what he did. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Woody

              but he has now fallen because of his own tragic flaw, and he committed an unspeakable act on a young life and devastated a family.  

              i was attacked once, and i nearly killed him.  i smashed him so hard in the face, i drove bone fragments from his nose into his brain pan.  he nearly died from what i did.

              i felt bad about it for almost a full half fifteen minutes.

              Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

              by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:40:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Sadly, I have some experience with people (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil

          who are used to being in police custody.

          Their body language is always the same...

          Small, slow steps.

          Looking repeatedly at officer in control of you for body language clues as to when to turn or move in a different direction.

          Not asking any questions or talking.

          Standing still and not moving upper body or head to assess where you are, looking repeatedly at feet to avoid doing so.

          Now, go back and watch that video again.

          * * *
          I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization
          -- SCOTUS Justice O.W. Holmes Jr.
          * * *
          "A Better World is Possible"
          -- #Occupy

          by Angie in WA State on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:10:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And just how does someone look after they murdered (0+ / 0-)

      someone in COLD BLOOD?

      YOU see "COLD BLOODED" killers are called that because they are emotionally detached and see their actions as justified and hence lack remorse.

      Freakin, John Wayne Gacey was very calm when he was arrested as well.

      No offense but this rationalizing logic belongs on Redstate.

      •  The guy supposedly killed an (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sc kitty

        unarmed 17-year old just an hour or two before this video was made. The defense will point out that he seems perfectly calm, and that a guilty murderer would probably be terrified of all the trouble he is in. They will definitely use this to their advantage. You don't think they will?

        •  No I don't (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nailbanger, sc kitty

          First off, in light of the evidence that has come out, Zimmerman may have felt coldly confident that he could kill a random black teen with impunity (at the time, he had no reason to suspect that Martin's father lived in the community).

          Also, in light of Zimmerman's cover story that he had been attacked and viciously beaten by Martin and had engaged in a desperate act of self-defense, appearing calm, collected, and importantly unscathed in the immediate aftermath does not jibe well with the cover story.

          But hey lets go with this logic, Zimmerman was not dressed like a murder cause he was not wearing a hoodie so he must be innocent right?

          •  I think you are saying that you (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sc kitty

            yourself don't buy the story. But that is not what I asked. The lawyers job is to sew seeds of doubt. Zimmerman's appearance that night will not jibe with how most jurors would expect a murderer's disposition to be.

            •  Let me clarify (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              chipoliwog, Angie in WA State

              Zimmerman gave a cover story of being accosted, beaten and that in fear for his life, he had to shoot Martin in self-defense.

              Your seeds of doubt approach might work if Zimmerman was denying being involved.

              But, he admits to shooting Zimmerman on grounds of self-defense. Do you understand that? His stand your ground defense is was that he had to kill Martin to protect himself from further grievous injury.

              So, no, it is not about me not buying Zimmerman's story but that this video evidence directly contradicts his "stand your ground" alibi.

              This video is a problem his attorneys will have to explain away if their stand your ground defense is to be plausible.

              In other words, a man who has just been nearly beaten to death and had to kill someone in self-defense should look a little shaken. Given the evidence of the 9/11 call and the visual contradictions to his cover story, this video makes him look like an emotionally detached  psychopath.

              •  Not necessarily (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Angie in WA State

                Not everybody falls to pieces, at least not visibly or right away.

                When I ran off the road because of a deer, I was shook up, but once I got out of the car and the ambulance got there and I realized I wasn't hurt, I calmed down considerably (though I was freaking out when I called my husband).

                When our house was broken into, I was perfectly calm when I called the cops and when they came out. It was later I freaked out some.

                Everybody reacts differently. So it's not his calmness that is the problem for me.

                It's the fact that he doesn't look like he's been in any kind of fight, been on the ground, nothing. Hell, I look worse than that after working in the garden.

                •  Having a car accident or a burglary is hardly (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tonedevil, Angie in WA State

                  equivalent to shooting and killing someone face to face at close range.

                  I'm not trying to trivialize your experiences as I am sure they were very traumatic to you.  But they simply are not the same as killing someone.

                  He knew exactly what he did. He (supposedly, if we can believe the increasingly discredited police reports) made the exactly correct statements necessary to justify using a weapon under the Stand Your Ground law. He moves casually and relaxed behind the patrol car and walks without being nudged on.

                  A person in shock can hardly move, let alone walk where they are told.  A person who hasn't had the reality sink in by this point?  I just do not buy that. Sorry.

                  Having been a sworn officer, he looks pretty calm and peaceful, compared to all other people I've seen in very similar situations.  Killing someone -- for non-sociopaths -- is a deeply affecting experience.  

                  What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                  by YucatanMan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:50:09 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  A person with experience with the police, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Woody

          having been arrested or interacting with police at some point in the past will act just like that.

          I've know people like that.

          My parents lived around the corner from Mel Moore, a member of the Gypsy Joker motorcycle club whose home base was Portland, Oregon in the 1970s.

          Mel was involved in a lot of shady activities, and was eventually knifed to death during a parade, in Portland, in the mid 70s.

          My dad was a car restorer, and buddies with this guy and his biker friends. I was around them for a couple of years.

          Those guys? If they had done what a lot of us suspect George Zimmerman did?

          They'd look a lot like what that video shows. Quiet. Slow movements. Not talking or asking questions. Calm.

          Not because they hadn't had a life-or-death situation to handle just a while earlier. But because they knew the consequences if the police decided to arrest and charge them with a killing. Jail for a long, long time.

          Considering what we have already learned about Zimmerman's previous interactions with Law Enforcement, it seems quite possible that is the basis for his demeanor.

          Or he could be in shock from the killing.

          But this video, lacking any easy to see physical damage or blood spatter or bandages or anything which would support Zimmerman's version of events? It's pretty damning, and I don't think a defense team would try to use it as a basis for determining 'state of mind'.

          Of course, that is said without knowing just how much video is actually available - or what else might be on it.

          Not to mention, no one has seen any of the Zimmerman interrogation/interview which would have taken place soon after this video was filmed.

          * * *
          I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization
          -- SCOTUS Justice O.W. Holmes Jr.
          * * *
          "A Better World is Possible"
          -- #Occupy

          by Angie in WA State on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:23:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was surprised at how casual all this was (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Angie in WA State

            The police just let him walk around without having their hands on him.  Seems rather strange.  

            --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

            by chipoliwog on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 11:23:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  remember, at the time he was handcuffed (0+ / 0-)

              but not under arrest.

              He was likely, legally, a "person of interest" and a "witness" to the incident.

              Someone the police want to speak to more, but haven't decided to charge with a crime as of yet.

              Police officers behave differently based on the legal status of the individuals under their control (you notice I do not say "under their custody", because that means something else entirely).

              But it was still odd how loosely they allowed him to move around that motorcycle away from the path that the officers were walking on the way to that door.

              * * *
              I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization
              -- SCOTUS Justice O.W. Holmes Jr.
              * * *
              "A Better World is Possible"
              -- #Occupy

              by Angie in WA State on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 01:55:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  People are passive when in custody (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Woody

          Unless under the influence of drugs or seriously deranged.

          Most people follow along quietly, follow instructions and wait for cues as to what's expected of them.

          "If you don't use your majorities, you lose your majorities."

          by SteinL on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:43:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think that is rather absurd. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Woody, Angie in WA State

          "Look, he should be terrified, but he isn't shaking and crying. My client knew it was OK to kill this guy and so he remained perfectly calm," is not exactly a great defense strategy.

          That sounds like the description of a sociopath, much more than an innocent man who should be shocked and horrified by killing anyone at close range for any reason.

          And no, he is not in shock.  I have handled many many people in shock when I was a sworn officer.  People in shock don't move around like this. Heck, you can't get them to move or respond normally at all.

          What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

          by YucatanMan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 09:45:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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