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View Diary: White-Washing Anti-Semitism after the Toulouse Attacks (23 comments)

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  •  And people wonder why (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debedb

    My people need Yisrael to continue to be a Jewish state.  A place where they can go live when they feel threatened in their own countires they live in.

    A place that the UN itself (before it became the bigotted body we know today) understood the need for after WWII.

    I would hypothosize that the increase in Anti-semetism in France correlates to the increase in the islamic population, which underscores the bigger problem facing Yisrael today.  The islamic wish for the total destruction of Yisrael.

    •  i read somewhere with the current (0+ / 0-)

      immigration and birthrate demographics that western europe is going to be islamic by the end of the century. The world is going to be a pretty lonely and scary place for jews if that's the truth.

      •  That is not true. (5+ / 0-)

        Read this article, which debunks the Eurabia myth.

        The 'Eurabia' myth deserves a debunking
        By DOUG SAUNDERS

        http://www.theglobeandmail.com/...

        It's just xenophobia mixed with hysteria.

        •  Eurabia is about much more... (0+ / 0-)

          than demographics. Saunders greatly oversimplifies the issues and neglects political machinations.

          To say it is only xenophobia mixed with hysteria is a gross exaggeration about the thesis. Indeed, the white-washing the diary refers to is interrelated to the matter, not to mention the manifestation of a new wave of antisemitism experienced across the continent.

          •  Yes, you have the Bat Ye'or craziness (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Shawn Russell

            about the Euro-Arab Axis too. But Shawn Russel was responding to a comment about the demography.

            "Walking into someone's diary is like walking into someone's home. You are a guest. Act accordingly." Kos

            by Mariken on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 12:21:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Have you read the book? (0+ / 0-)

              By using the concept it relates to the book, which discusses much more than demographics.

              •  Nope. I have no interest in conspiracy theories (0+ / 0-)

                "Walking into someone's diary is like walking into someone's home. You are a guest. Act accordingly." Kos

                by Mariken on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 12:38:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Then perhaps you are manipulated... (0+ / 0-)

                  in your ideas, rather than forming them for yourself.

                  •  Yep, I am (0+ / 0-)

                    from Norway so I am pretty manipulated by The New Quislings.

                    LOL.

                    "Walking into someone's diary is like walking into someone's home. You are a guest. Act accordingly." Kos

                    by Mariken on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 01:22:15 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  What does that have to do with... (0+ / 0-)

                      Eurabia? I can conflate things, too, but what purpose does that serve?

                      Obviously, you formed your judgment about Eurabia based on something, and perhaps from sources that have an agenda as well.

                      But since you brought up Norway, which is far from diverse in its overall orientation on the issues, were you around for The Anti-Jewish Riots in Oslo, as further documented by this news article?

                      Perhaps laughing out loud with Ms. Halvorsen?

                      •  No, I wasn´t around (0+ / 0-)

                        for the demonstrations and riots in Oslo. Only followed the media coverage.

                        I mentioned Bruce Bawer´s book because you linked to an article by Gerstenfeld, and when I followed that link, there was aslo a link to another article by him, where he mentions that particular book.

                        "Walking into someone's diary is like walking into someone's home. You are a guest. Act accordingly." Kos

                        by Mariken on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 02:54:49 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I was. It was not comforting at all. (0+ / 0-)

                          Gerstenfeld was addressing the white washing that frequently occurs in Europe, and Ramadan specifically.

                          I fail to see why you needed to mention being Norwegian. Using an article from an article only muddies the waters. Norwegian reaction to July 22 is far afield from the topic.

                          The point is that when discussing Eurabia as a concept, to dismiss it solely on demographic grounds is simplistic and ignores the evidence that a Euro-Arab connection was created and has contributed to occurrences of antisemitism across the continent, and perhaps more.

                          That this seems a conspiracy to you shows how little you actually know of what occurred, and how easy it is to create a manipulated reality based more on ideology than facts.

                          Bat Ye’or did not create the name Eurabia or engage in its manifestations, just reported about its advent and expansion.

          •  I have seen no good evidence of "Eurabia" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mariken, JDsg

            The thesis was crafted by Bat Ye’or, and her theory stems from her own dislike of Muslims. As Loonwatch states:

            Bat Ye’or has an axe to grind; there could be no one more biased than her.  Her antipathy towards Islam stems from her stormy past: in 1957, she was expelled from Egypt during the Israeli invasion of Sinai.  Although one can and should most definitely sympathize with her plight, it seems that she has–like so many racists before her–reacted to bigotry by becoming a bigot.  She was wronged by Muslims, and now she wants to take vengeance, which has blinded her.
            http://www.loonwatch.com/...
            Read the entire article. She is a conspiracy theorist as Loonwatch demonstrates.

            Also read Why Fears of a Muslim Takeover Are All Wrong. in the Daily Beast It states in part:

            Moreover, the myth of Eurabia implies the existence of a united Islam, a bloc capable of collective and potentially dangerous action. The truth is that there are no powerful Muslim political movements in Europe, either continentwide or at the national level, and the divisions that separate Muslims worldwide, most obviously between Sunnis and Shiites, are apparent in Europe as well. Each major nation in Europe has drawn Muslim immigrants from distinct regions of the Islamic world, often former colonies, with different traditions and outlooks. A British Muslim from Pakistan would struggle to communicate with a French Muslim from Algeria. A second-generation Muslim from Turkey living in Germany will have little in common with a newly arrived Moroccan across the border in Belgium. Sharp differences exist even within national frontiers. In Germany, more than one in 10 Muslims are Alawites, who aren't even recognized as coreligionists by the more orthodox.
            http://www.thedailybeast.com/...
            •  Have you read the book? (0+ / 0-)

              I find your sources too simplistic in their criticisms.

              Do you know anything about the Littmans?

              I think the motley crew at Loonwatch seems no less prone to demonizing others than those they accuse.

              •  I read it as a Google Preview and it sounded like (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JDsg

                a conspiracy theory. Here is the book on Google Books and people can form their own judgments
                http://books.google.com/...

                But why don't you provide me the evidence that Eurabia is (a). Factual and (b). Is inevitable.

                You have not done that in any of your comments on this diary.

                •  So the answer is no. (0+ / 0-)

                  I find that asking people to make informed judgments based on summaries prepared by others is a prescription for poor judgments.

                  I suggest perhaps you read the book, rather than offer a summary conclusion it is a conspiracy theory.

                  I also suggest that you learn more about both Giselle and David Littman.

                  My comment addressed to you was solely to say the impression that Eurabia is just about demographics is inaccurate.

                  My original comment was to suggest that Gerstenfeld's op-ed, supportive of the diary's premise, was worth checking out.

                  •  David Littman is the spouse of Bat Ye'or (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JDsg

                    So he must be an objective and unbiased writer, huh? Both are in cahoots together.

                    Number two, reading Bat Ye'or's work as a google preview translates into not reading the book to you?

                    Number three, why are you so reluctant to show me that Eurabia is factual and inevitable despite my request?

                    •  Do you know anything about him? (0+ / 0-)

                      His history as a human rights activist?

                      I find it sad that you seem so quick to characterize that which you do not know.

                      Is a Google preview the same as reading the entire book? If so, why is it called a preview? I do not think a preview qualifies as reading the whole.

                      I am not reluctant at all. There are limitations as to what is possible here, and you have already shown a predisposition to dismiss. Discussing Eurabia does not really deal with the diary either. My comment was a simple aside to provide accuracy.

                      Conversely, why are you so reluctant to believe that the book is factual, when someone that has read it completely says so?

                      I will say that the Littmans have been involved firsthand in fighting for human rights and against antisemitism since well before the events referred to in Eurabia, and from that experience have come to their positions, which, from reading your diary, may not be so far from your own.

                      Here is David Littman speaking at the Human Rights Council last year on behalf of women:

                      I'll leave it at that. If you want to believe these are just loons, that is your prerogative, but I need not share that judgment.

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