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View Diary: What if Barack Obama weren't a leftist? (278 comments)

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  •  I could not agree more (46+ / 0-)

    with one of your opening sentences:

    At any rate, what I had in mind was to expose the fact that thirty years of neoliberal "Washington Consensus" policy has made a laughingstock of the idea of "the Left" in this country
    It is a laughingstock.  Even with other countries in Europe and elsewhere moving to the right, their left is still on a whole different planet than ours, it seems.

    I wonder if the Democrats on the left will ever wake up.  I also wonder how many of the Independents out there are people who think the Democratic version of the left is a laughing stock.  I've seen some numbers analyzing the Independents but not many.  I would love to see some more in depth studies of the large and growing segment of our population who call themselves Independents or undeclared.


    "Justice is a commodity"

    by joanneleon on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 05:57:34 AM PDT

    •  Me too. (33+ / 0-)
      I would love to see some more in depth studies of the large and growing segment of our population who call themselves Independents or undeclared.
      Digby posted a thing recently about how the Democrats were overconfident in their ability to persuade the Supreme Court to give its blessing to the PPACA.  There it is argued:
      I wish I had more confidence that liberals would rise up en masse and demand single payer if Obamacare is struck down, but I just can't imagine it happening.
      And I'm wondering: are liberals the main advocates for single payer in America?  What about the independents?

      "I've seen the flame of hope among the hopeless/ And that was truly the biggest heartbreak of all" -- Bruce Cockburn

      by Cassiodorus on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 06:05:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  interesting question (9+ / 0-)
        And I'm wondering: are liberals the main advocates for single payer in America?  What about the independents?
        several of us tried to push for single payer during HCR debate here.  we were shouted down and told to embrace the public option compromise position.

        Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

        by Cedwyn on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 06:51:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's hilarious. Who? Certainly not you (5+ / 0-)

          When they kicked the single payer advocates out of Max Baucus's HCR meeting, you said nothing and made excuses for it.

          When people posted videos of Obama campaigning for single payer for his Senate run, you said, "leave Obama alone!"

          And you never supported Kucinich.

          On top of all that you spent all your time killing single payer by unquestionably supporting everything Obama did(who made sure it never ha a chance), so people were forced to push for a public option which you worked all year to kill.

          Despite your "statements of support," while supporting Obama and making it impossible which mean aboslutley nothing because we can see yoru actions.

          Take your pathetic psuedo parliamentary diaries for instance. A budgetary item that was cored was something you pretended couldn't pass reconciliation so I can't imagine you would support single payer if it was scored, because you never showed the intellectual curiosity to learn about real parliamentary procedure. You had an anti single payer agenda the whole time.

          No no no. Public option advocates didn't kill single payer, you did by unquestionably supporting Romney-Heritage Foundation-Dole-care.

          Talk about the greatest revisionist Daily Kos story ever told. Dr SteveB was a consistent single payer supporter. You were a consistent Obama supporter of whatever he said you supported during the health care debate(and you totally fell in line like OFA did). I was there. I remember and you're full of it.

          Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers! - George Carlin - ROUND 2: Vote! Send me to Netroots Nation!

          by priceman on Sat Mar 31, 2012 at 12:00:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh how cute...hopping into dead threads (0+ / 0-)

            to flip me grief.

            well, here it is, priceman, pixelated in black and white for all posterity:

            http://www.dailykos.com/...

            true enough.  Public-Option is the best path to single-payer.

            but it's also true that public option is the compromise position.  and it is way too early in the game to adopt a compromise.  we have to push, push, push for single payer so that the eventual public option compromise is actually meaningful.

            besides, it's a venn diagram thing; the overlap between "supports public option" and "supports single payer" is basically the entire circle.  if congresscritters consistently hear demands for single payer, they bloody well know the public option is feasible.

            and there's nothing saying we can't do both, anyway...

            New Rule: You may not simultaneously celebrate the Civil War and diss the South.

            by Cedwyn on Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 10:13:15 AM PDT

            if you're going to play, bring facts.

            Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

            by Cedwyn on Sun Apr 01, 2012 at 09:44:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dead thread in my diary, get the same (0+ / 0-)

              besides, that proves absolutely nothing.

              Despite your "statements of support," while supporting Obama and making it impossible which mean absolutely nothing because we can see your actions.
              You're just like many in the House who said they supported HR 676 until it was time  to bring it up for a vote came up then they were nowhere to be seen. What I said is factual because you have no comments decrying Obama for his flip flop or ceding all control to the Finance committee which kicked single payer advocates out. Your meaningless fraudulent support for single payer can't be proven by a meaningless hollow comment you made.

              Those aren't facts.

              Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers! - George Carlin - ROUND 2: Vote! Send me to Netroots Nation!

              by priceman on Sun Apr 01, 2012 at 05:48:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Thing is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe shikspack, joanneleon

        like the unemployment numbers the polling of the  political spectrum right center left is twisty. The numbers from the data collected may be right but the devil is in the questions posed and the analysis which uses the concocted politicos fictitious, right left center.

        It's all defined by the false spectrum our electoral politics is operating on. You can get glimmers of this when they break down respondents positions on issues. The PO was popular, people want the bush tax cuts gone. They don't like the wars.

        Another myth tells us that those who do not vote are apathetic. There is a great book I read about this by Joan Didion called Political Fictions. One of my leftist friends didn't vote before 2008 she said not voting is my vote.  

        How do you measure peoples political stances when the choices given are false. We now find our selves in a position where the lunatic minority RW fringe sets the narrative. The measurements are skewed conservative and the left is portrayed as extreme as in 'far left'.

    •  It's not a problem of US left. It's a feature of (3+ / 0-)

      US as a country. Americans trust the market a lot more than most Europeans and trust the government a lot less.

      •  i think it also has much to do with the difference (17+ / 0-)

        in how we define freedom here.

        Americans, typically, have a more positive view of freedom:

        I should have the freedom to own a gun.
        Europeans, typically, have a more negative definition of freedom:
        I should have freedom from need. Maybe even, our society should have freedom from need.
        I think a good part of the battle is how we define freedom. We fight for for the right to....  do something in the US.

        Do we fight for the freedom from hunger, or unemployment, etc?

        •  FDR was great (4+ / 0-)

          at redefining freedom, so was MLK. FDR's 4Freedoms illustrated by Rockwell hung in my leftist grandmothers dining room, so did pictures of Paul Robeson and FDR. The left was not centrist or moderate in the thirties. We've always had a conflict of right /left, liberal /conservative in our country.

          What freaks me out is that we no longer do. The RW's get's more and more extreme but their is no counter to it. No political means to check the fascist anti-democratic drift  Revisionist Democratic history now calls the social progress made in the 60's and in the New Deal, too extreme and not possible in the NWO.          

          •  Absolutely, FDR did define freedom both (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TracieLynn, shaharazade, joanneleon

            positively and negatively.

            The Four Freedoms were goals articulated by US President Franklin D. Roosevelt on January 6, 1941. In an address known as the Four Freedoms speech (technically the 1941 State of the Union address), he proposed four fundamental freedoms that people "everywhere in the world" ought to enjoy:

                Freedom of speech and expression
                Freedom of worship
                Freedom from want
                Freedom from fear

            His inclusion of the latter two freedoms went beyond the traditional US Constitutional values protected by its First Amendment, and endorsed a right to economic security and an internationalist view of foreign policy. They also anticipated what would become known decades later as the "human security" paradigm in social science and economic development.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

            If I had more time, I would have found a better source; but what is important is his view on human security and freedoms both positive and negative.
      •  And look where that's gotten us. (7+ / 0-)

        Romney - his fingernails have never been anything but manicured.

        by Pescadero Bill on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 09:50:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  and that stance is (0+ / 0-)

        dumb as fuck.

        "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

        by joey c on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 11:18:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I am and I do (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TracieLynn, shaharazade, joanneleon

      That is am an independent who laughs every time "leftwing" or "liberal" is conflated with "the Democartic Party". I agree mostly w/ the Dem platform and Democrats are my kind of people, but the party itself has just been one big sellout and dissapointment for as long as I've been politically aware and could register to vote.

      However, based on last year's Pew report on public political groupings, lefty independents like me are a rare breed. My hope is that the new generations of liberal Americans will become less party affiliated and partisian and more outcome oriented.  I think the political system needs more politically active (and punitive) independents who can not be taken for granted by politicians.

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