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View Diary: Zimmerman's 05' arrest Resisting officers & Obstructing justice (a felony) sentence: Anger Man class (29 comments)

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  •  Eye witnesses (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA, flatford39

    saw the two fighting, one on top of the other.  They could not tell which was which.

    I do think there is room for some version of the Z story to be correct.  I don't think he went looking for someone to shoot.  Whatever did happen--he shot out of agression more than reasonable fear, perhaps, or shot out of actual fear, because Martin was putting up a hell of a fight, and tried to get Z's gun, there's no question in my mind of Z's culpability for being the asshole who brought the whole sorry adventure to pass.

    I agree with you in one important respect, that Z is fabricating a lot of his story.  Nonetheless, knowing that they were brawling in close contact, hell, I'd have been afraid if I were either one of them.  There was a gun right there.

    •  Zimmerman created the situation. (10+ / 0-)

      He had every opportunity NOT to act. He murdered Trayvon in cold blood and it doesn't matter if they scuffled because Zimmerman was the one stalking Martin. Zimmerman cannot claim he was fearful for his life when he was the one in pursuit.


      Not this mind and not this heart, I won't rot • Mumford & Sons

      by jayden on Fri Mar 30, 2012 at 09:02:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh I agree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe wobblie, MKSinSA

        He's culpable.  That's not inconsistent with him starting out as the pursuer--not to kill, but to be a supercop crimefighter--and then, genuinely fearing for his life when Martin fought back.  

        It's degrees of culpability.  It's at least manslaughter.  Whether it rises to the level of murder 2 will depend on the facts as they come out.

        I do also believe that Z is embellishing the story, even if it was Martin on top in the scuffle.  I don't think he was beaten severely, if at all.  I do think you can be hella afraid when you're that close to a scared, scrappy kid, and he sees your gun.  Even if Z was the one on top, if Martin had a shot at grabbing the gun, Z could have had a genuine fear for his life.

        •  By stating that (0+ / 0-)

          "Z could have had a genuine fear for his life" you are essentially granting him the "self-defense" excuse, which would totally exhonerate him.

          The facts of the 911 tape are not consistent with Z being "genuinely fearful for his life" especially when you hear Trayvon screaming "help me!" for at least 20-40 seconds before the gun goes off.

          Martin once worked as a bouncer in a club, and has a history of anger issues and violent assault. He was most likely much physically stronger than Trayvon, and it's very unlikely that he was met with equal or greater strength from a boy that did not have a violent history and was nicknamed "slimm" by his comrades for being so skinny.

          •  No indeed (0+ / 0-)

            Having a genuine fear for his life does not give him a self-defense acquittal.  You only get that if you are blameless.

            It is possible to be genuinely fearful for your life, but still culpable (manslaughter or such), because you were the reckless idiot who created the situation.

            If it was Trayvon screaming and not Z, that goes to proving whether or not Z was also fearful for his life.

            That will be a key piece of evidence, if experts are able to determine whose voice that was.

            I am firmly in the camp that says Z is culpable.  I am firmly in the camp that suspects Z has lied about what how the episode unfolded.

            I'm just saying, with homicide there are--appropriately--many degrees of culpability, and we do not yet know all the facts.

    •  The vigilante that cried "n*gg&r" is a hoax (0+ / 0-)

      Think Christine Todd and the backwards B. Since Zimmerman lied to the cops and his surrogates have lied at every opportunity, even the potentially true aspects of his statements to the police should be viewed w/ skepticism. Why should anyone believe him when he has no injuries and was not in a life and death struggle. The guy is a sniveling fat coward and liar. He should get no leeeway here folks, he was the asshole who cried, there's a n*gg$r, let me get one because them damn _ always get away.

      •  Eh (0+ / 0-)

        It is possible to be a racist, and still not have gone into that situation intending to kill.

        It is possible to lie, and still have some grain of truth in what you said.

        There is one key piece of evidence that has come out:  There was a physically close scuffle.  One or two eye witnesses saw the two men fighting, one on top of the other.  (not able to tell which was which)

        With a gun involved, that may well be a situation where both men actually feared for their lives.  That may turn out to be simply a fact here.

        That Z lies in order to claim a complete self-defense exoneration (that he was being beaten senseless), is not inconsistent with the possibility that the crime he is guilty of is not murder 1, or murder 2, but some form of manslaughter.

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