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View Diary: We've Identified Another Gun-Owner Who Shouldn't Own A Gun. (70 comments)

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  •  Nothing like a good fallacy (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    not4morewars, johnel, 43north, rockhound

    to blame gun owners for the violence of a few.  Let's try something.....

    The problem is that while every African American individually is a highly responsible, law-abiding citizen who only wants to protect their person and home, and sees no reason why they should be tarred with the same brush as the African Americans who go crazy (and I've personally talked with a lot of African Americans, and I can tell you they all speak of themselves this way), but as a group, all African Americans together are highly murderous.  As a group, African Americans are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in the US every year...
    Disclaimer: I am not racist or espousing racist views. I am just trying to prove a point.

    "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

    by Texas Lefty on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 10:04:57 AM PDT

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    •  True about gun-owners, but not true about African- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SoCaliana

      Unfortunately, my original statement is true on the facts; your paraphrase of my statement replacing gun-owners with African-Americans is not true on the facts.

      Fact: every year, tens of thousands of Americans suffer a fatal gunshot injury.

      Fact: every one of those guns involved in the tens of thousands of fatal gunshot injuries occurring every year are owned by gun-owners.  

      Fact: the number of Americans killed every year by African-Americans is smaller by an order of magnitude than the number of Americans killed by guns owned by gun-owners.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 10:30:38 AM PDT

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      •  I assume you're counting suicides there, correct? (3+ / 0-)

        Otherwise you'd be saying less than 15k for fatal gunshots.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 01:01:31 PM PDT

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      •  you know, (0+ / 0-)
        Fact: every one of those guns involved in the tens of thousands of fatal gunshot injuries occurring every year are owned by gun-owners.  
        not every cop in the country owns their service pistol.  how much do you want to bet that over the years quite a few people have been shot by someone who does not own a firearm?  keep in mind how trigger happy cops tend to be.
        •  A couple of points (0+ / 0-)

          1) The number of people shot dead by police is a small portion of the number of people dead of gunshot every year.

          2) True that not all police own their service firearm.  But those firearms are owned by some one or something.  They are still owned.  

          3) By the same token, not all the guns used in murders are owned by the person committing the murder.  Is it fair to claim those murder people are should not be counted in murder statistics?

          But really, all this is a BS follow-up to the BS argument made by Texas Lefty.

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 03:19:53 PM PDT

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          •  if we discount the cop shootings, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KVoimakas

            can we also discount the "business dispute" type shootings where both parties were involved in some sort of crime like the drug trade?

            the problem gets really small then.  small enough that it made me decide that our energy is better spent ending the drug war then energizing the right by scaring them with gun control crap.

            the way to reduce gun violence is to reduce ALL violence.  a real social safety net, good education for all and real opportunity to benefit from the fruits of ones labor will make gun control moot.

      •  And, of course, the vast majority of people killed (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KVoimakas, happymisanthropy

        in the US every year are killed by criminals. If we could identify all present or potential criminals and imprison them for life, we could prevent all murders, (except the ones in prison.)
             Please note that the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the US have never killed anyone. You are proposing a law restricting the rights of at least one third of the population to prevent mass murder events, which are statistically rare, despite the widespread press coverage.

        -5.12, -5.23

        We are men of action; lies do not become us.

        by ER Doc on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 02:13:26 PM PDT

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        •  Can you provide some back up to your claim? (0+ / 0-)

          I think that is flatly wrong: the vast majority of people killed every year in the US ARE NOT killed by a criminal.

          As an ER Doc, you should know that the number one cause of death in the US is heart disease.

          I assume you meant to say that the number of people killed by gunshot every year are shot by criminals.  This is a statistic I would like to see.  Can you provide a source for this statistic?

          And I point out that locking up all the criminals forever would not have prevented the shooting done by One Goh, Jared Loughner, or George Zimmerman.

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 03:25:24 PM PDT

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      •  And car owners? (0+ / 0-)

        How many people are killed every year by cars? How many people die from the pollution cars cause? How many people die in wars over oil that is used to run cars?

        Yet nobody is calling for cars to be banned and they aren't even Constitutionally protected rights.  

        "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

        by Texas Lefty on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 04:27:39 PM PDT

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    •  Sadly, though... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas, happymisanthropy

      ...like most bigots, those who support this view simply can't see that it is exactly the same thing.

      There's always a reason why their bigotry isn't really bigotry -- and they can get away with it because it's aimed at the other, someone different from them.

      It's really kinda sad, when you think about it.

      Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

      by theatre goon on Tue Apr 03, 2012 at 10:48:22 AM PDT

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