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View Diary: Of Boiling Men Alive In Our Name (168 comments)

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  •  Dumb question (none)
    Okay - lemme ask a dumb question. Please pardon my ignorance...

    Does anyone believe that information gained from torture actually is good information? I can speak for myself - I could not imagine holding out for very long at all and I am sure that I would tell anybody anything at all to avoid torture.

    Or am I asking the wrong question? Is it not about the information at all? Perhaps they just (ew!) LIKE doing this?

    All's I'm saying is, is that torture has been with us (humans) for thousands of years - what is the payoff? I don't get it.

    I am not being a smart-ass, I am honestly perplexed.

    •  My understanding (4.00)
      is that interrogators who know their shit view torture as a TERRIBLE method for extracting information, mostly because the subject becomes so desperate for relief that they may reach a point where they'll say just about anything.

      Therefore whatever information does come out has to be checked and double-checked since the torture has rendered the information unreliable.

      I don't have any links or specific resources to cite, I only know that this is what I've read in certain MSM coverage of the torture issue, dating back to the first revelations about Abu Ghraib last year.

    •  Ask these questions (4.00)
      ....Does anyone believe that information gained from torture actually is good information? I can speak for myself - I could not imagine holding out for very long at all and I am sure that I would tell anybody anything at all to avoid torture....

      Ask these questions:

      Is the information gained from torture timely or accurate?

      How many innocents were tortured in the attempt to gain timely and/or accurate information?

      Is it worth it at the cost of our humanity?

      "....This decision opens with a description of the difficult reality in which Israel finds herself security wise. We shall conclude this judgment by re-addressing that harsh reality. We are aware that this decision does not ease dealing with that reality. This is the destiny of democracy, as not all means are acceptable to it, and not all practices employed by its enemies are open before it. Although a democracy must often fight with one hand tied behind its back, it nonetheless has the upper hand. Preserving the Rule of Law and recognition of an individual's liberty constitutes an important component in its understanding of security. At the end of the day, they strengthen its spirit and its strength and allow it to overcome its difficulties...."

      Judgement on the Interrogation Methods applied by the GSS. The Supreme Court of Israel, sitting as the High Court of Justice

      ....You can certainly argue whether the Israeli Supremes went far enough. But what I find most striking are not the legal issues involved, but rather the enormous contrast in intellectual intent between what the Israeli high court and the Bush Justice Department have been trying to do. The Israeli justices, for all their hypocrisy, were attempting to extend the rule of law into areas that have traditionally been regarded as the exclusive domain of the national security state. The Bush legal team is boldly and arrogantly trying to do the opposite.

      It's the difference between a legal system that has been trapped in a moral cesspool for almost 60 years, and desperately wants to get out, and a small clique of legal extremists who are determined to throw themselves, and their country, into the same stinking mire, regardless of the risks."


      Billmon
    •  Sadism. (4.00)
      Committed by people who should be committed, psychos. America gone insane in group evil.

      A society of sheep must beget in time a government of wolves. Bertrand de Jouvenel

      by Little Red Hen on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 08:20:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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