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View Diary: Contrary torture memo finally released by State Department. Bottom line: CIA committed war crimes (275 comments)

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  •  Evidence? Yes, because I have top security (0+ / 0-)

    clearance. /snark

    But I'll take your word for it.  How's that?  

    Of course the Obama Administration and the CIA and every other acronym in the NSA would tell us the truth that torture is a thing of the past, that no one could ever imagine treating prisoners like that.  I believe.

    We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

    by gooderservice on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:15:08 PM PDT

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    •  You, with no clearance, know about Bush's torture. (0+ / 0-)

      I didn't have a security clearance when I found out about Abu Ghraib, or the Salt Pit, or the black sites, or the waterboarding.

      Neither did you - and yet, we both found out about things, and found out about them in fairly short order, I'd like to remind you.  Unless you can give me a reason why torture didn't stay a secret under Bush, but it has under Obama, all you're doing is striking a pose and ignoring the evidence.

      Nobody's asking you to take anyone's word for anything.  It would be nice if you could base your opinions on something a little more reliable than your gut, though.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:25:58 PM PDT

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      •  What does that phrase mean: Strike a pose? (0+ / 0-)

        I've seen quite a few commenters post that very same phrase.

        We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

        by gooderservice on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:40:09 PM PDT

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        •  It means that instead of evidence... (0+ / 0-)

          you're simply using an attitude, an orientation, a stance, that you hold about How Things Work, to support your claim.

          Like in this theoretical exchange:

          A: The government is torturing people!

          B: Uh, where's the evidence for that?

          A: Oh, come on, you don't really think you can trust the government, do you?  Of course they're torturing people.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:46:41 PM PDT

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          •  Okay, thanks. (0+ / 0-)

            And how convenient that the evidence is classified.  Got it.

            We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

            by gooderservice on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 02:57:38 PM PDT

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            •  Was it classified under Bush? (0+ / 0-)

              I'm going to keep asking this question, for as long as you keep using this shoddy argument:

              If Obama is torturing people, like Bush, and we found plenty of evidence about it when Bush was doing it, then why aren't we seeing any similar evidence under Obama?

              The black sites were classified.  The waterboarding was classified.  The beating/suffocation death of the Iraqi general at Abu Ghraib was classified.  One thing we should have learned from Iraq: torture doesn't stay secret.

              Unless you can provide any reason to explain why it stayed secret now, when it never has before, then your excuses when evidence isn't how we should make up our minds aren't all that compelling.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 03:04:29 PM PDT

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              •  Yes, I understand everything illegal Bush (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                aliasalias

                did was reported on in real time.  Not a minute passed until the media reported on it.

                Point taken.

                We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

                by gooderservice on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 03:06:36 PM PDT

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                •  It's been more than three years. (0+ / 0-)

                  "Real time?"  We found out about Abu Ghraib less than a year after the invasion of Iraq.

                  So, once again, why has no similar evidence come out about the Obama administration when it did come out about torture under the Bush administration?

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Wed Apr 04, 2012 at 03:13:15 PM PDT

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