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View Diary: ObamaCare is Going Down. Premiums Didn’t. We Need Health Care, Not Insurance. (350 comments)

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  •  nothing except (9+ / 0-)

    a lack of votes for it.

    there simply were not 50 senators willing to use senate reconciliation for either. there just weren't.

    Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

    by Cedwyn on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 08:35:20 AM PDT

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    •  Soemone who knows something about reconciliation (8+ / 0-)

      talk to me or I'm gonna tell!

      ^ because this person doesn't know anything about it or the vote tally because the sidecar passed and a vote was not allowed on a public option.

      This comment was not scored so it fails.

      Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers! - George Carlin - ROUND 2: Vote! Send me to Netroots Nation!

      by priceman on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 08:41:58 AM PDT

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      •  yes, the sidecar passed (4+ / 0-)

        because 50 senators voted for it to pass.  the public option did not have 50 votes of support for senate reconciliation, else it would have passed.  like the sidecar did.

        Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

        by Cedwyn on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 08:49:44 AM PDT

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        •  You know because a vote was never held (5+ / 0-)

          Point of order. I call BS.

          You don't know what you're talking about Cedwyn. Your diaries pleaded of desperation for David Waldman to come educate you, but he never did. :-(

          Wrong.

          Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers! - George Carlin - ROUND 2: Vote! Send me to Netroots Nation!

          by priceman on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 08:55:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  omfg...what kind of vote would you have them hold? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            psilocynic, indubitably

            what are you talking about?  they could have written it into the sidecar and would have had they had the votes for it.  but they didn't.

            as to the rest:

            If you don't like someone, remember, no one wants to hear you tell them repeatedly. You want to disagree on the merits, do so with counterfactuals.

            by kos on Thu Mar 22, 2012 at 11:03:37 AM PDT

            Never forget that the Republican War on Women originated with religion; the GOP is but theocracy's handmaiden.

            by Cedwyn on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 08:58:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Why votes were never held (6+ / 0-)

            The way it works is they figure out in advance what is likely to get enough votes (or not get enough votes), and then craft the contents of the thing to reflect that which they are farily certain will pass. Anyone counting votes knew full well that there would not be enough to pass single payer or a public option.

            from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

            by Catte Nappe on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 09:43:41 AM PDT

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            •  You don't know that (15+ / 0-)

              As a matter of fact Schumer was asked about this, and he said it never came up because the president never asked for it.  So they never took a vote on it.  

              Pricemans point is just as valid as yours, perhaps more so. Not as inconvenient to the narrative that the president has no magic wand to wave, however.  

              I DON'T DO MAGIC CONFIDENCE FAIRY BEANS.

              by Nada Lemming on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 09:53:26 AM PDT

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              •  Not working on a narrative here (0+ / 0-)

                Lot's of things "never come up" simply because the parties involved know that they aren't going to reach an accommodation on it. Had the President asked for it to come up, they would have raised the issue and gotten formally and officially beaten down. I don't know what was in his head, but that may be one reason he didn't ask - choosing not to take the beating.

                from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

                by Catte Nappe on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 10:19:31 AM PDT

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                •  lots of votes come up for political positioning... (13+ / 0-)

                  in the process of political posturing lots of things come up for votes just so opponents can point to them and say, look he voted for/against this!

                  surely a vote on single-payer could have been brought up just to show how politically correct the dems are and how the craven rethugs are in there slugging away for their corporate cronies.   ooops, i guess a lot of the dems would have been caught out on that too, eh?

                  i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

                  by joe shikspack on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 10:39:30 AM PDT

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                  •  I think you vastly mis-read the public sentiment (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sviscusi, Cedwyn

                    It would not have demonstrated political correctness - just political stupidity (and for many a confirmation of the feared socialism and government over reach). Polls indicate people would like what a government option/single payer would theoretically do for them - but they do not like change, and the "common wisdom" has been that we need less government spending and involvement. The insurance industry would have thrown it's considerable influence and available cash into a bitter fight to the death. The dems would have gone down in flames, we would presently have no health care bill of any kind, and we would very likely be looking at the certainty of a Republican administration next year.

                    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

                    by Catte Nappe on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 11:40:52 AM PDT

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                    •  the media wisdom has been... (6+ / 0-)

                      "that we need less government spending and involvement."

                      the problem is that there were very few leadership democrats or president obamas who were willing to stand up like candidate obama did and call for single-payer.

                      the conventional wisdom narrative needed challenging and the will to do so was not there on the part of the dem leadership because they were too busy cutting deals with billy tauzin and the insurance industry.

                      i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

                      by joe shikspack on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 12:11:18 PM PDT

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                  •  A single payer vote was promised (11+ / 0-)

                    in exchange for other concessions.  Was the promise made to Kucinich?  I might be misremembering. But the Dem leadership reneged on that promise.  Funny how when a bill seems pie in the sky, everybody is for it. But when there is a chance that it would get a lot of votes, suddenly everything changes.

                    Oh, I'm for the bill as long as I know it will never pass! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.  It is a political game.

                    Harry Reid also promised to continue working on the public options as soon as the ACA bill passed.  And it was a big promise, not just an off the cuff thing.  Have you heard anything from Harry about the public option bill or vote since?  Crickets.  Never happened.  They were promising anybody anything to get that thing passed.  They probably never had any intention of keeping any of those promises.  With respect to the public option, they certainly didn't.

                    Why is that?  Simple answer. The president and all the president's men bargained it away back in the summer of 2009.  And they keep their promises to the Big Health industry and the 1%, their masters.  But the promises to the 99% are fungible.


                    "Justice is a commodity"

                    by joanneleon on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 12:45:39 PM PDT

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                  •  yep! why are we voting for these guys again? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    priceman
                •  You don't know that either (9+ / 0-)

                  So either you're working from a script or you're wishful thinking.  Take your pick, it doesn't matter.  

                  The MOST you can honestly conclude from this is they didn't hold a vote because without the presidents backing, any option was likely to fail.  That doesn't mean that with his backing, it would have failed.  

                  What we know is
                   

                  The president did not want single payer, or medicare for all.
                  That's the message apologists are trying to obscure in this diary.  That's the message the administration wants obscured.  So whether you're working a narrative consciously, you're promoting the OFA approved message: Obama is weak!  He can't do anything,  Those mean Republicans!  We must re elect, or Dooooom!

                  I DON'T DO MAGIC CONFIDENCE FAIRY BEANS.

                  by Nada Lemming on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 10:42:51 AM PDT

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                  •  You are the epitome of wishful thinking (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    looking and listening

                    We had to fight tooth and nail to get the bill we did get, and the R's immediately turned around and are doing all they can do to obstruct and repeal it. What on earth makes you think that if the "kenyan muslim" had gotten on his bully pulpit they would have somehow magically been persuaded to pass a more generous "liberal socialist" scheme? Not to mention the insurance companies who didn't put up a serious fight, but would have put every dollar and bit of influence they had into saving their lives and stopping a single payer/medicare type program. Wishful thinking is a massive understatement.

                    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

                    by Catte Nappe on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 11:34:02 AM PDT

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              •  Take a look (0+ / 0-)

                at legislative history and how few bills actually come up for a vote. Don't you think there's a reason for that? Pelosi has said many times that she won't bring up bills that won't pass, UNLESS there's a political gain from it?

            •  And the lesson here is Never Try. (0+ / 0-)

              You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

              by Johnny Q on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 01:10:04 PM PDT

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              •  Well no, that's not the lesson at all (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sviscusi

                The lesson is to weigh your chances and evaluate the likelihood of a win and calcualte the short and long term costs of a loss, before deciding whether to try or not.

                from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

                by Catte Nappe on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 01:19:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So unless the fix is in (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  WattleBreakfast, priceman

                  the game's not worth playing?

                  You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

                  by Johnny Q on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 02:08:49 PM PDT

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                  •  Not at all (0+ / 0-)

                    In many instances the win is not assured, but it is likelier than not. In others it's not even likely, but deemed possible - and that chance is considered enough to counter whatever the costs of a loss might be. For some, defeat may be practically certain; but the messsage sent in making the attempt is more important than the cost of the loss. Taken to the extreme there of course have been people who knew the cost would be loss of life, not just job or love or associates or material goods; and still they have gone ahead and acted.

                    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

                    by Catte Nappe on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 02:57:08 PM PDT

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                •  Yeah but (0+ / 0-)

                  that doesn't make a pithy comment heading.

    •  Senators can be convinced of things (20+ / 0-)

      as evidenced by the White House pressure to reject the Dorgan amendment.  And so can the House, though that can be a bit harder for the executive so admins generally prefer to work the Senate.

      David Dayen, December 2009:

      Dorgan Exploring Mystery Of Who Killed His Reimportation Legislation
      Sen. Byron Dorgan is unhappy that his amendment to the Senate health care bill on reimportation, which at one point appeared to have the votes for passage, failed after a late intervention from the Democratic leadership to preserve a deal with the drug industry. But Dorgan goes much further in pointing fingers specifically at the Obama Administration for the defeat, even intimating that the White House wrote a letter from the FDA about safety without the Commissioner’s knowledge.
      Last week, he said he heard rumors that the FDA was going to send a letter objecting to drug importation on safety grounds, which he has said is a bogus reason. He said he called FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg, who said she knew nothing about such a letter.

      He said his timeline shows that a letter, signed by Hamburg questioning the safety of drug imports, was sent 24 hours later to a few senators who opposed importation. That piece of paper became a rallying cry for other senators who voted down Dorgan’s amendment.

      “I think the letter was prompted, probably drafted somewhere else,” like “the White House” Dorgan said.

      CSI Washington: Who Killed Drug Imports?
      Washington has its share of murder mysteries, but the one that interests Sen. Byron Dorgan involves the untimely death of his amendment to allow cheaper prescription drug imports from Canada.

      There are several sets of fingerprints in the Senate chamber where the legislation died, including some from the White House, says Dorgan, a North Dakota Democrat. “They did not support this,” and worked with Democratic Senate leaders to kill it in order to move the larger bill forward, he said in an interview. The amendment failed in the Senate Tuesday evening.

      [ ... ]

      This summer, the drug makers and their lobby, PhRMA, made a highly publicized deal that they would help the government and seniors save $80 billion in drug costs, and they in turn would support the president’s health care overhaul campaign.

      But numerous industry and congressional sources said there was also a private agreement between the pharmaceutical industry and White House that the administration would not support importation of drugs in the health care bill.

      And the infamous public option, killed dead by the White House even as they used it to manipulate people and things while they already knew it would never happen because they had the power to manipulate things legislatively through the Senate and through pressure on their own party leadership and caucuses in the House.  In this case, it was another wildly popular item that had many benefits.  In fact, not having the public option made the bill worse in many ways. But the White House got what the White House wanted and the White House was able to use their power and influence to manipulate the votes.
      NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option

      For months I've been reporting in The Huffington Post that President Obama made a backroom deal last summer with the for-profit hospital lobby that he would make sure there would be no national public option in the final health reform legislation.

      [ ... ]

      On Monday, Ed Shultz interviewed New York Times Washington reporter David Kirkpatrick on his MSNBC TV show, and Kirkpatrick confirmed the existence of the deal. Shultz quoted Chip Kahn, chief lobbyist for the for-profit hospital industry on Kahn's confidence that the White House would honor the no public option deal, [ ... ]

      Even while President Obama was saying that he thought a public option was a good idea and encouraging supporters to believe his healthcare plan would include one, he had promised for-profit hospital lobbyists that there would be no public option in the final bill.

      When the White House is driving legislation, working through the Senate, like they were during the formation of the health insurance bill, when they really really want something, they can often get it as evidenced by the Dorgan amendment and it his hardly the only example.  Even when something is wildly popular and in the news every day, they can still kill it if they want to.

      So the argument about not having the votes is a big Fail.  Nobody falls for that anymore.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 09:46:35 AM PDT

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      •  So go ahead and do it now. (0+ / 0-)

        The President doesn't actually have a vote.  Any congressman can introduce your single payer health care an pass it.  And with a veto proof majority the President can't ever stop it.  So what in the heck is holding back the single payer fans?  If there is such an outcry for it and all the votes needed do you really think the only thing that stood in the way was the President?  And even if he did why don't all of the progressive congressmen and women just send it to him and let the veto be on his shoulders.  It sounds like proponents of single payer health care think the President is the only obstacle.  So it should be easy to do it without him.

        In fact, why didn't the (majority I presume) congressmen and women in favor of the single payer not insist on it in order to deliver their vote.  We got the "cornhusker kickback" for one Senator's vote.  Why couldn't we get all of the Progressive lawmakers to insist on single payer before they voted.

        The good news is we still can. At least according to the people who believe the failure to have single payer health care rests entirely on the President's shoulders.  

        “You can only become truly accomplished at something you love. Don't make money your goal. Instead, pursue the things you love doing, and then do them so well that people can't take their eyes off you...” - Maya Angelou

        by stellaluna on Thu Apr 05, 2012 at 10:54:47 AM PDT

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        •  Feh. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          priceman
          The President doesn't actually have a vote.
          Um, veto power?  Vice-President breaks ties in Senate?  
          So what in the heck is holding back the single payer fans?
          Two party system in pockets of insurers?

          "I've seen the flame of hope among the hopeless/ And that was truly the biggest heartbreak of all" -- Bruce Cockburn

          by Cassiodorus on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 03:03:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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