Skip to main content

View Diary: NRA, Club for Growth pounding Indiana Sen. Dick Lugar in the six-termer's first-ever primary (71 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    v2aggie2

    according to Chris Bowers, the Senate Democrats in 2008-2010 were the most liberal Democratic caucus of the last 100 years, at least. The problem was the filibuster, of course, but to say that Democrats have moved right over the last few decades is false.

    Democrats, even northern Democrats (so it's not just the Dixiecrat exodus), have moved solidly to the left. Granted, not as far as the GOP have moved right, but you didn't say that.

    People panic too much on this site.

    by thematt523 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 at 09:04:41 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Bullshit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ImagineOhio

      The very idea that the last Democratic Senate could even stand the comparison with the Congresses that enacted the New Deal, or the Great Society legislation, is simply preposterous.  

      The Democratic Senates of the early 1970s enacted countless pieces of legislation on environmental, civil rights, civil liberties, campaign finance, consumer safety issues...and that's merely the tip of the iceberg.  

      The Democratic Senate of 2009-11 was, by contrast, all hat and no cattle.  

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:20:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Voting records back me up (0+ / 0-)

        And the reason for those things is because the filibuster was not used, and because the GOP was less conservative.

        People panic too much on this site.

        by thematt523 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:32:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Voting records say nothing (0+ / 0-)

          about the content of the legislation voted on.  

          The Civil Rights Act of 1968 (fair housing), the Endangered Species Act, the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts...those are HUGE pieces of legislation, which impact every aspect of American life.  

          HCR?  The stimulus package that contained 40% tax cuts (with no stimulative value)?  Sorry, all that is small potatoes.

          Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

          by Big River Bandido on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 10:39:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True (0+ / 0-)

            but those had no filibuster. The liberalism of the 51st senator (according to the chart, it was Claire McCaskill) was the most liberal in a long time. Had health care reform required only 51 votes, a public option would have been in there, no question, and probably a lot more. Cap and trade would have passed. Oil regulations. A stronger financial reform bill. The DISCLOSE Act. More federal aid. This is why I strongly support ending the filibuster. Sure, the GOP would impose its agenda, but it's only fair that a majority gets to do what it wants to do. I'm willing to bite that bullet.

            And remember, back in the 1960s and 70s, you had Republicans that proudly worked with Democrats on liberal issues, and Democrats so conservative that some were members of the John Birch society. Times have changed.

            And also, even when taking out those tax cuts, when adjusted for inflation, the stimulus package was bigger than the ENTIRE New Deal. All ten years, compressed into something that passed in a month.

            So yeah, the last Congress was the most productive in a VERY long time. Remember, all the liberal legislation that was passed throughout history was considered half-assed useless compromises by liberals back then.

            People panic too much on this site.

            by thematt523 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 11:26:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Conservative Democrats like (0+ / 0-)

              Kennedy, Metzenbaum, Proxmire, Humphrey, McGovern, Mansfield, Hughes, Culver the Elder, and Bayh the Elder.  And Biden, who was far more liberal then than he is now.  And that's just the start...I'm forgetting twice the number of Democrats in the 1970s Senates who were more liberal than Bernie Sanders is today.  The only Senate Democrat who can hold a candle to his luminary predecessors is Tom Harkin, and he and Sanders lead a very lonely fight.  

              In this century we have the likes of...Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Bayh the Lesser, Cuomo the Lesser and Culver the Lesser in statehouses, and...Claire McCaskill.  I mean, really...if the Senator who was delinquent in paying the taxes on her private plane is truly "the most liberal in a long time"...then either your standards have truly slipped, or you're not going back long enough — or both.  

              Today's Senate and House Democrats are a poor shell of a joke when compared to the titans of yesteryear, who enacted truly monumental legislation.  Healthcare reform that was a gift to the insurance industry?  Finance reform that was a gift to the banks?  Not much of real consequence to either one, no chance of expanding them on the political horizon when the Democrats know nothing but playing defensive politics, and the healthcare law might not even survive because Congressional Dems were too stupid to define the "mandate" as a tax when they wrote the fucking bill.  

              Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

              by Big River Bandido on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 06:48:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't know (0+ / 0-)

                what delinquent taxes has to do with liberalism, but whatever. If you want more liberal Democrats, YOU have to fight for it. You can't sit there and hope for a time that didn't exist. Mentioning how liberal people used to be won't change anything. And besides you named only 10 senators. The last time I checked, you needed 50 for a majority.

                And yes, all those 1970s liberals! We all know that the 70s was a time of great liberalism, of...business deregulation and capital gains tax cuts.

                You're a typical distraught internet liberal who believes that the past was better when history shows a far less sunny picture. And that the failure of liberal policy is because of a lack of "fighting", whatever the hell that means! Look, do you honestly believe that Democrats have some obvious solution to all their failures, but just decide not to do it, just because?

                 I know you are irrational because you think that Chuck Schumer is too conservative. I mean, really?!

                People panic too much on this site.

                by thematt523 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 08:10:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  And I turn off at the "filibuster" excuse (0+ / 0-)

              It's just that, an excuse, and a pretty pathetic one used to justify and excuse mediocrity.  

              A political party that was truly committed to reform would either twist the arms necessary to force through its agenda — or if it lost the vote in Congress, would keep going back to the well to push its electoral advantage with the voters.  When you have a winning issue, either you win the legislative votes, or you turn around and use a legislative loss to club your opponents and pick the same fight the next day.  Today's Democrats do neither, which is the "tell" that they either don't want real reform, or they just don't care.  

              Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

              by Big River Bandido on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 06:52:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You misunderstand (0+ / 0-)

                history and basic parliamentary rules. I'd correct you, but I have other things to do. If you do not believe the filibuster is not a problem, I cannot convince you of anything.

                People panic too much on this site.

                by thematt523 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:57:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (123)
  • Community (60)
  • Media (23)
  • Elections (23)
  • Environment (22)
  • Civil Rights (22)
  • Law (21)
  • Culture (21)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (21)
  • Josh Duggar (20)
  • Science (19)
  • Labor (18)
  • Economy (17)
  • Marriage Equality (16)
  • Bernie Sanders (16)
  • Ireland (16)
  • Climate Change (15)
  • 2016 (15)
  • Hillary Clinton (15)
  • Health Care (14)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site