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View Diary: Raising the minimum wage: The right thing to do, and a winning issue, too. (135 comments)

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  •  Riiiigggghhhhhhttttttttttttt. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChadmanFL, sethtriggs

    Will profits also fall, to compensate?  

    And if they do, how do you plan on preventing wages from then being cut again to increase profits---thus starting the whole process all over? Again and again and again. Until wages reach zero and can't be cut any more.

    •  You can't cut wages to zero (0+ / 0-)

      Most people in the US make more than minimum wage, many a lot more.

      If it were possible to arbitrarily lower wages, companies would already have done it. Employees who make less than their market salary will simply leave and go to a company that appreciates them more.

      I get the impression that you think the government is the only force in the world that can keep wages up. Employees with skills (that is to say, most people since most make over minimum) just leave if they can get a better deal elsewhere.

      I certainly have done it and I have good friends who have drastically increased their salary by moving companies. In your world, this is apparently not possible.

      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

      by Sparhawk on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 07:37:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The hell you can't cut wages to zero (0+ / 0-)

        It's unConstitutional (Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments) , but when has that ever stopped greedy bastards from trying it?

        Your solution is ultra-short-term, and many people here are already reporting that those high-paying jobs are drying up and/or going away. People with skills. People with advanced degrees. Real people - who can't find jobs that pay what their skills "should" be worth.

        Must be really nice living in that air-conditioned plush-lined ivory tower, but you need to get out and see the real world.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 07:59:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Again (0+ / 0-)

          Tell me why most workers make more than minimum wage.

          If your theory was true nearly everyone would be at minimum.

          And market values of jobs change. Your market value is what someone is willing to offer you right now. Not your opinion of how much you are worth, or what you made the last job.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 08:09:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Could be we're coasting on momentum (0+ / 0-)

            I am not an economist and don't pretend to be. But the frequency of anecdotes here on DKos from people with skills/degrees and no job, or a low-paying McJob, strongly suggests that "market value" theory doesn't match reality.

            If it's
            Not your body,
            Then it's
            Not your choice
            And it's
            None of your damn business!

            by TheOtherMaven on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 08:25:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  my dear Spar, you ALREADY know the answer to that (0+ / 0-)

            The reason why most American workers make more than minimum wage is the very same as the reason why most workers in the US still have any job at all that pays more than two cups of rice per day----because their boss hasn't yet figured out how to either automate their job and eliminate it completely or to move it to China or Thailand for said two cups of rice a day.

            If you disagree, then please by all means go ahead and explain to us why you think a business owner would voluntarily pay his workers more than he has to and voluntarily cut his own profits. You libertarians say you are economic experts on the free market---well then tell us what happens to a company that voluntarily raises his cost of production above that of his competitors.

            You're not REALLY this goddamn stupid, are you Spar?  You're just pretending to be this stupid so you can keep your ideological hymen intact by not letting anything in, right?

      •  well that goes back to what I asked our (0+ / 0-)

        libertarian friends earlier-----does "state's rights" mean that state governments have the constitutional right to reinstitute slavery within their territory if they want?

        The only possible (non-hypocritical) libertarian answer would, of course, have to be "yes".

        But none of them have the balls to say that out loud.

        Do you?

      •  but my dear Spar, you are utterly oblivious of the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sethtriggs

        simple fact that the employer can pick up and leave too----and he can do it a lot easier than the employee can.  When the car companies all move their plants to China (and remember that any who don't have to compete with all those who do), where do you propose that highly-skilled worker of yours go to get a good-paying auto-worker job? Move to China to work for two cups of rice a day too?

        Indeed, the employers already ARE picking up and leaving, which is why all the good-paying jobs in the US have left for China and India and Cambodia and Thailand, where all those highly-skilled employees of yours get replaced by equally highly-skilled Chinese and Indians and Cambodians and Thais who work for two cups of rice a day. Perhaps you've not noticed.

        Indeed, the only reason YOU still have a good-paying job is because your employer hasn't figured out a way (yet) to move your job overseas where it can be done for two cups of rice a day. The instant he does, you will be in the unemployment line.

        The libertarian solution to that, of course, is to say "tough shit". To which I can only once again reply, "yes, it WILL be tough shit for the employer when nobody anywhere can afford to buy the car he's making because everyone is working for two cups of rice a day.

        Or did you plan on asking those good American companies to please keep the high-paying jobs here for god, mother, and country, out of the goodness of their benevolent patriotic hearts?

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