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View Diary: Mitt Romney has a 'three-pronged strategy' to make women not hate him (128 comments)

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  •  Bullshit. (23+ / 0-)

    Ann Romney's never had a job. And until, oh, about 12 hours ago, Republicans have insisted that raising kids isn't work, it's a privilege. And until they renounce their decades-long attack on "welfare queens"—who make the exact same "choice" Ann made, except that they didn't "choose" multimillionaire husbands—Republicans don't get to suddenly start claiming that they're the ones who value women's unpaid work.

    And anyone who looks at what Rosen actually said can see that she was obviously making the point that Ann Romney doesn't know shit about women and the economy because she's never been a part of it, never worried about finding or keeping a job, and never worried about balancing anything more than her two Cadillacs. And all of that is true.

    •  you should think more about framing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SeattleDoc, frisco, Seneca Doane

      and messaging and how to draw in people who are in the middle of the road or on the fence in this election.

      this type of framing does not help.

      •  What about GOP framing Rosen as an Obama adviser? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Radical Moderate

        When the operation of the machine becomes so odious that you can't take part,you've got to put your bodies upon the gears;you got to make it stop.Indicate to the people who run it that unless you're free the machine will be prevented from working at all

        by YoungArizonaLiberal on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 11:58:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If it's a lie or misleading, then slam them for it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bluegrass50

          But don't use it to justify your own counterproductive framing.

          Democrats must
          Earn the trust
          Of the 99% --
          That's our intent!

          "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

          by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 02:23:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What Rosen said wasn't a lie, so you support her (0+ / 0-)

            statement then?

            The Repubs have been lying about Obama for 3 years, how has staying above the fray worked for us thus far? It will lose us the election if we keep doing this.

            When the operation of the machine becomes so odious that you can't take part,you've got to put your bodies upon the gears;you got to make it stop.Indicate to the people who run it that unless you're free the machine will be prevented from working at all

            by YoungArizonaLiberal on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 02:34:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It really depends on how one defines (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bluegrass50

              the ambiguous term "work," as I note in a comment above.

              Our political problems do not stem from a refusal to clarify ambiguous terms when they have inadvertently offended people.  That's silly.  Clarify, then fight on.

              Democrats must
              Earn the trust
              Of the 99% --
              That's our intent!

              "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

              by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 06:07:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Raising children (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        frisco, bluegrass50

        is unbelievably hard work, even with help, and even in the best financial circumstances.   At our house we use the term "non wage-earning working mother." Attacking Ann Romney on her role as a mother is a bad idea both politically and otherwise.

        •  It wasn't about the woman Ann, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ferg, JayRaye, IM

          it was about the surrogate, wife of Mitt Romney, pretending to understand what women "face" in their lives and she doesn't have a clue what she's talking about.  She's defending policies that go against women's rights and choices!

          And why are there so many men defending Ann Romney on Daily Kos?  What's that about, exactly?

          I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

          by KayCeSF on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 12:07:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  They're the same person (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KayCeSF, bluegrass50

            and one line of attack is legitimate and one isn't.  So we have to be scrupulous in separating them.  I'm not "defending her"; the critics want to keep the likes of Karl Rove from using this to help push Romney and attack Obama.

            Democrats must
            Earn the trust
            Of the 99% --
            That's our intent!

            "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

            by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 01:20:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  No one's attacking her role as mother. (8+ / 0-)

          Her role as economics expert, though? Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

          •  Oh, yes, that part is bullshit (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KayCeSF, bluegrass50

            But Rosen (and by extension, Democrats generally) are, really, right now being effectively portrayed as "attacking her role as mother" by supposedly saying that it isn't "work" -- and we need to set the record straight quickly and clearly.  You may not like it -- I certainly don't like it -- but that's how one has to deal with unfair political attacks, like it or not.

            Democrats must
            Earn the trust
            Of the 99% --
            That's our intent!

            "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

            by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 01:23:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, let's set the record straight. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayRaye, Seneca Doane

              I think it's begun to happen with Martin Bashir.  He's pointing to facts vs. the "role as mother is hard work"  which everyone knows is true and beside the point.  

              I'm frustrated by the obfuscations today, all the way around.

              I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

              by KayCeSF on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 01:35:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The reason they're being portrayed that way (0+ / 0-)

              is because, as per usual, the professional Democratic strategists fucked up. Rosin never should have apologized. The Obama team never should have claimed to be offended and demanded she apologized. Rosin was absolutely right, but as soon as the the "strategists" decided that she was wrong, they basically said, "Yes, Republicans are correct in saying Rosin attacked her role as mother," even though it's quite clear that's not what she was doing.

              Rosin's a major fail, but not because she "attacked" Ann's family planning choices.

              •  Taking her words literally, that's what she said (0+ / 0-)

                I don't think that she meant it; she has clarified it nicely.  People are not saying "that's what she meant," but just "those words came off as conveying it."

                Check out how many time FP stories and diaries here make a big deal about someone's words despite the likelihood that they just failed to say what they meant.

                Dem strategists screw up often, but this isn't one of them.  Clarify and move on.

                Democrats must
                Earn the trust
                Of the 99% --
                That's our intent!

                "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

                by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 08:46:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Except that she didn't attack her on that. (0+ / 0-)
      •  Actually, framing aside, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slouchsock, JayRaye, IM

        Kali Joy is right.  And Mormon women are told staying home and raising children is not only what they are meant to do, but it is a privilege.  That goes for many other religions as well.

        And Kali's remarks about what Rosen's message was about is true, too.  I don't know Mrs. Rosen, but I believe she's become the scapegoat for the real conversation they don't want to have about their war on women.  Which is what Rosen understands and tried to reveal.

        Now Hilary Rosen apologizes to Ann Romney (as per Martin Bashir segment)... and says "let's try to focus on the substance."  

        Waiting for Republicans to raise hell about her apology now....

        I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

        by KayCeSF on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 12:03:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I find that my being a stepfather is a privilege (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KayCeSF

          and that does not mean that it isn't also work.  It's just not work that is compensated financially.

          Republicans are, absolutely, trying to obfuscate.  That's what they do.  Our job -- unpaid, but still a job! -- is to make it harder for them.

          Democrats must
          Earn the trust
          Of the 99% --
          That's our intent!

          "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

          by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 01:24:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I can't help thinking of all the women who (0+ / 0-)

        would love to stay home with their children, who can't, because they have to go to work.  This isn't about framing to me.  This is visceral.  

    •  Agree 100%. Thankfully the GOP has nothing to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayRaye

      attack Obama for. They wrongfully said that Rosen was Obama's adviser so if the parent poster has a problem with framing, they should look at what is being done on the other side.
      We can't win this messaging battle by forfeiting before we have a chance to fight back.

      When the operation of the machine becomes so odious that you can't take part,you've got to put your bodies upon the gears;you got to make it stop.Indicate to the people who run it that unless you're free the machine will be prevented from working at all

      by YoungArizonaLiberal on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 11:57:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The notion that political attacks only work (0+ / 0-)

        when they're honest and/or justifiable is not true.

        The way to fight back here is with clarity, not doubling down on playing into the intentional twisting of Rosen's words.

        Democrats must
        Earn the trust
        Of the 99% --
        That's our intent!

        "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

        by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 01:18:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Absofreakinlutely (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, KayCeSF, Hey338Too, IM
      Mrs. Romney will also increase her campaign appearances; she has already begun to talk about how women tell her they care deeply about the economy
      The women with whom Mrs. Romney socializes would be interested in the economny as it pertains to the cost of a new Coach Bag.

      The Romneys are offensive and do not know why.  I think it is because rather than simply acknowledging their life long wealth and privilege, they continue to patronize and talk down to people.  The longer this charade goes on, the more republicans (not the deranged RW base) will recognize how shallow and cruel these people really are.

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 12:03:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kaili, she said that she had "never worked a day" (0+ / 0-)

      The term "work" is ambiguous.  It can mean to exert effort to get something done or it can mean only doing so in exchange for direct financial compensation.

      Similarly, "having a job" can mean "having a task to perform (including raising kids)" or "having a task to perform in exchange for direct financial compensation."

      (A few people now "work" for Markos and Daily Kos as employees; more people on the DKos staff work very hard as volunteers.  It's still work, right?)

      Republicans are trying to get people to think that when Rosen (and now you) speak about Ann Romney not having engaged in the latter one of each pair, they are also saying that she has not engaged in the former, which is both an insult and terrible politics.

      You know that you can make the point in other ways: "while she has worked raising children and creating a home and as a volunteer, she has never depended on finding and keeping a paying job for her survival, so "  That's the point we need to be hammering home today.

      Saying that "Ann Romney's never had a job" -- even if the Republicans are complete weasels about it -- is just playing into the Republican meme that Democrats devalue unpaid motherhood.  You don't believe that, I'm sure, so it's important to keep the distinction clear.  Otherwise, the demagogues win.

      Democrats must
      Earn the trust
      Of the 99% --
      That's our intent!

      "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

      by Seneca Doane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 01:16:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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